Is GZQuake possible?

[JPC]

Hi, I am new here. My name is JPC and I want to tell you something. You may know Raze, that Source Port that allows to run games based on the Build engine using the GZDoom codebase. This got me thinking about... What if there was also a GZQuake?

It should be noted that by GZQuake I don't mean a recreation of the Quake game in the Doom engine. But a Source Port that allows to run Quake and other games based on the id Tech 2 engine using the GZDoom codebase.

Because GZDoom has certain advantages and features that other Quake Source Ports like Darkplaces and Ironwail do not have.

Here are a couple of features that a hypothetical GZQuake should have.
-ZDoom, GZDoom, QZDoom, Quakespasm and Darkplaces features.
-New gameplay options, including crosshairs, and crouching.
-Options for the HUD, including an alternative layout.
-Implementation of Hexen II, Malice, Quake II, SiN, Heretic II, Kingpin: Life of Crime, Soldier of Fortune, Daikatana and Anachronox's editing features.
-Support for all Quake engine games.
-Support for UQMF (Universal Quake Map Format).
-Support for custom player skins.
-A chasecam and many camera effects, including Duke Nukem 3D-style security camera and Unreal-style skyboxes. Cameras can replace the player view, allowing for scripted cutscenes or alternative gameplay, such as mimicking a sidescroller.
-Support for loading resources directly from ZIP (.pk3) or 7z (.pk7) files, making the use of the traditional PAK file format optional.
-ENDQUAKE (ENDOOM equivalent) and animated start up screen support

With this GZQuake with these features, it could motivate more people to create Quake mods. I would even like there to be a kind of Realm667 but for Quake modding resources. Even with this GZQuake would make more people want to create standalone games and market them using the Quake engine as a base.

[Caligari87]

This is highly unlikely to ever happen.

[JPC]

What a shame. Because I miss the old Quake mods where they changed a lot of things. See mods like After The Fall, Air Quake, Fantasy Quake, Kick Flip, Navy Seals, Ninja Quake, Transfusion, Quad Quake, Target Quake and Your Path of Destruction.

After the release of Quakespasm, mods are now limited to maps with the same enemies, weapons and environment as the vanilla game. Where is the creative freedom?

[Cherno]

A Quake source port (probably encompassing features from Q2 and Q3 as well) with the moddability oz GZDoom would be a dream. With the way Quake engine games load mods, you can't get teh incredibly flexibility that ZScript and the stacking of mods offers.

[camper]

There is a fundamental difference between 2.5D (GZDoom) and 3D (Quake 1,2,3...) engines. I don't think it can be overcome. Also, Quake has a difference between dynamic and static parts of the map. They are also unlikely to be overcome in doom engines, where the map can change dynamically (whole sectors can rise and fall in real time).

[JPC]

So... Why has Raze been possible and why can't the same be done with a GZQuake?

[Enjay]

The Build games supported by Raze are very different to the Quake games. Build is still a 2.5D engine.

[Caligari87]

As I understand it, Raze modding is also pretty different than GZDoom modding despite the shared codebase. You can't just load some stuff from a GZDoom mod into Raze and expect it to work in a Duke game.

So like, even if GZQuake became a thing, it'd still be Quake modding underneath a GZDoom-esque frontend. IMO there's not really anything to be gained that couldn't also be achieved by just forking DarkPlaces.

[Graf Zahl]

One big problem is that the Quake game almost entirely runs in script code.
This includes large parts of the input system that are out of the engine's hands - you are at the mercy of the script code here - and since old script code cannot be recompiled easily you cannot change much, you have to make sure that your port can deal with that the scripts try to do. This limits the scope of Quake ports quite a lot.

[axredneck]

After the release of Quakespasm, mods are now limited to maps with the same enemies, weapons and environment as the vanilla game. Where is the creative freedom?

Cough Arcane Dimensions cough...

[JPC]

You should know that the Quake mods that are coming out today are only limited to maps and do not change the enemies, weapons and environment. Playing the same as in the vanilla game. There are few mods worth trying such as Quake 1.5, Slayer's Testaments, Blood & Iron and Quake Champions Classic.

I wish people like Nash Muhandes and dpjudas would get together to create the best source port ever made for Quake using GZDoom code as a base. And this will make the Doom and Quake communities end up joining together to create mods, total conversions and standalone games using this GZQuake. Reviving that old golden age of mods that Quake had, when source ports like Quakespasm and Darkplaces didn't exist yet and people depended on QuakeC to make mods and source ports like WinQuake and GLQuake.

[phantombeta]

That's nonsense. Quakespasm supports QuakeC and the mods that use it, and the community still makes plenty of maps that change enemies and weapons- Arcane Dimensions exists and is widely used as a base for new maps.

[Nash]

Between Ironwail, VkQuake and FTEQW, Quake source port enjoyers are eating good, IMO - I don't really see the immediate need to make yet another Quake port.

I mean, SURE? I guess a Quake engine with the GZDoom backend (mouse code + video output) would be nice, but again - Ironwail absolutely crushes these aspects on modern computers. Ironwail is also stupidly fast (they're doing the static level mesh thing which allows Tears of the False God - one of the largest maps from Arcane Dimensions - to run at hundreds of FPS).

Now for a possibly hot take:

I see nothing wrong with the Quake engine's limitations when it comes to not being able to stack mods upon mods together. Modern Quake maps are tend to be made more deliberate and carefully designed. Quake is primal and raw - I'm actually in agreement in not allowing too much flexibility in the users ruining these maps with double jumping + ultra brutal gore + RPG mods + 200 weapon packs as is typically seen in the Doom modding space...

(gets ready for the thrown tomatos)

[SanyaWaffles]

how dare you have an opinion Nash. I'm afraid I'm going to have to write a dissertation on why you're wrong on YouTube dot com(TM) (patent pending). It will gain -i * sqrt(orbs30) views.

... that said I can't disagree with you, in all seriousness.

[JPC]

You should know one thing. I miss the old Quake mods, because they have that something that makes them special and that the current mods don't have, because mods like Air Quake, Kick Flip, Quake Rally, Galactix and a Diablo style mod whose name I don't remember change the gameplay completely and it seems that you are playing another game that is not Quake. And that's why I want there to be a GZQuake to bring back those kinds of mods. In fact I'm going to put a series of videos uploaded by Marv's F*cking Tomb where he shows several of these mods that I mention.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U49rq9MZfx0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k929d3pc-pQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVSsToTYjDQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYB1OFaAK4Y