[63] Bug: Monster Alert Behavior

[TheDarkArchon]

What if there could be a Victory state for decorate monsters which the monster performs after killing its target?

I like. While the enemies are celebrating killing your side, get round the back and give them two barrels!

[Phoenix9000]

If your machine can handle it, you could run Doom in DOSBox with full sound support, but it's extremely system intensive to do this. I'm running an AMD XP1800+ with a GF4-ti4600 and the sound runs great, but visually it's more of a slideshow than the Doom 3 demo was. This is why I'm running Zdoom, that and I rather like having a crosshair, high-res, and fully manual aiming since I've been playing Quake for so long. Makes it nice to snipe across a large map at imps and zombies with the chaingun or pistol. I rather dislike autoaim of any kind anymore. If I miss I want it to be my fault.

Windows 2000 cannot run Vanilla Doom.exe as far as I can tell. It will get partway into the loading process and stall after it gets to I_StartupTimer, at least, that's what it does to me.

[HobbsTiger1]

@Phoenix 9000: does DOSBox give the necessary sound support for Vanilla? I didn't know that. Also, that post about 2k helps, now I know every post-3.x system that can run Vanilla Doom (95, 95b, 98, 98SE, ME (ugh), XP)

[Belial]

This is why I'm running Zdoom, that and I rather like having fully manual aiming since I've been playing Quake for so long.

Then you're not playing Doom anymore.

[HobbsTiger1]

LOLZORS

EDIT (one longer than the origional post): I lost my copy of Vanilla Doom 2, could someone it to me plz?

[Belial]

What's so funny? I can go with jumping, but mouselook kills the Doom feeling instantly.

[HobbsTiger1]

You say your not playing Doom (and it doesn't feel like it), but theres the IWAD and look at the name of the port ZDoom. Just strikes me as funny when people say that even though I agree with them entirely (which makes it more funny). And jumping is a Hexen thing, so if you play Hexen you can't go without it (and I've crashed or glitched a couple wads in Doom because I jump there too).

[Belial]

I've never used mouselook in ZDoom (and never will), and never use jumping if the wad does not allow it. I want to play Doom because of what it is, including the limitations. If I want mouselook, I play Quake, but if you play Doom with mouselook, you basically cheat. Map30 of Doom 2 loses all it's meaning and so does the rest of the game.

Only port in which I use mouselook is jDoom, when I'm running it with with the model pack and full 3d.

[Phoenix9000]

Hobbs: Yes, DOSbox has full sound emulation. I've run Wolfenstein 3d and Wing Commander with it, although Wing Commander would occasionally crash DOSBox back to Windows.

Belial: So somehow because I prefer to aim manually my gameplay experience is less "true" than yours? I suppose you're of the mind that running a Quakeworld client that includes positional and model frame interpolation is "cheating" too because the normal choppiness makes me nauseous and dizzy as well? I find this ironic since by manually aiming I'm only doing on my own what the game would do automatically for me, whereas jumping - which the game was never designed for - allows you to reach places you never could before or shortcut other areas. So basically it's not cheating only if I play by your rules. It's pretty selfish to use your view of how a game should be played as the metric for everyone else's experience, and pretty arrogant to assume your method of play is the only right one. What makes you right and me wrong, hmm? I only see this as a difference in preference. I don't particularly like it when someone else tries to dictate to me how I should play a single-player game on my own system. Some people play Quake 3 Arena with picmip 5, some like to turn on all the visual features they can. So what? If an option is part of the game it's up to the player what they want to do with it. If using an option is cheating by your definition, then I hereby demand you use only default settings from this point onward. Doesn't sound too appealing, does it? Options are there for a reason, and besides the fact that Doom.exe won't work with Win2k it's precisely because of those options I play Zdoom. As far as I'm concerned the only problem cheating out there consists of wallhacks, aimbots, and speedhacks during multiplayer, and such things I have zero tolerance for. If someone wants to iddqd and idkfa and go bunny-hopping all the way through Doom why should I care? It's not detracting from my gameplay experience what they do on their own single player game.

What you never bothered to ask me is if I am willing to play without crosshair or manual aiming, which I am, and which I did for years. I played shareware Doom when it was distributed via BBS and floppy disks. I played Wolfenstein 3D when it was cutting edge. I've played all the way through Doom 1 using only a pistol, and I've beaten Wolf using only a knife. I'm as oldschool as you can get, so you might want to give me a little credit here instead of bashing me just because I like to aim on my own. Besides that, I thought this thread was supposed to be about monster behavior and why it's different in Zdoom, which Graf already answered for me.

[HobbsTiger1]

Mousing isn't my thing either. It does rather detract from gameplay. Plus, my primary machine is a Sony VAIO notebook, and its mouse is NOT designed for gameplay. My justification for jumping is that strafejumps help me in DM and I play a lot of Hexen (this introduced jumping so don't tell me you shouldn't use it). On singleplayer PWAD's if its not meant for jumping and not a ZDoom wad I try not to use it. If it is a ZDoom designed PWAD I don't care what its designed for, I'll use jumping.

[Belial]

Ok, lets play the post dissecting game.

So somehow because I prefer to aim manually my gameplay experience is less "true" than yours?

Yes, in a classic Doom sense.

I suppose you're of the mind that running a Quakeworld client that includes positional and model frame interpolation is "cheating" too because the normal choppiness makes me nauseous and dizzy as well?

I have no idea what you just said

I find this ironic since by manually aiming I'm only doing on my own what the game would do automatically for me, whereas jumping - which the game was never designed for - allows you to reach places you never could before or shortcut other areas.

No, you're wrong. Manual aiming is much less limited than Doom's autoaim. The jumping example is total crap, because a) Doom wasn't designed for mouselook either, b) mlook lets you kill map30 noprob.

So basically it's not cheating only if I play by your rules. It's pretty selfish to use your view of how a game should be played as the metric for everyone else's experience, and pretty arrogant to assume your method of play is the only right one.

Not my rules, classic Doom rules. Not my method, Doom's method.

What makes you right and me wrong, hmm? I only see this as a difference in preference.

Correct.

I don't particularly like it when someone else tries to dictate to me how I should play a single-player game on my own system.

I'm not telling you anything, it's just the way I see it.

Some people play Quake 3 Arena with picmip 5, some like to turn on all the visual features they can.

I don't give a fuck.

If an option is part of the game it's up to the player what they want to do with it.

Show me a +mlook option in Doom. I'd really like to see that.

If using an option is cheating by your definition, then I hereby demand you use only default settings from this point onward. Doesn't sound too appealing, does it?

Actually, it does.

Options are there for a reason, and besides the fact that Doom.exe won't work with Win2k it's precisely because of those options I play Zdoom. As far as I'm concerned the only problem cheating out there consists of wallhacks, aimbots, and speedhacks during multiplayer, and such things I have zero tolerance for. If someone wants to iddqd and idkfa and go bunny-hopping all the way through Doom why should I care? It's not detracting from my gameplay experience what they do on their own single player game.

Yeah, it's their problem.

What you never bothered to ask me is if I am willing to play without crosshair or manual aiming, which I am, and which I did for years. I played shareware Doom when it was distributed via BBS and floppy disks. I played Wolfenstein 3D when it was cutting edge. I've played all the way through Doom 1 using only a pistol, and I've beaten Wolf using only a knife.

Am I supposed to go WOW or sth? The fact that I had an Atari at the time and didn't play Doom in Dec '93 doesn't change anything. The Wolf example is masochistic. The Doom pistol thingy is laughable. I did it on Tyson, Pacifist (w/o ep4 and e2m8), and NM. So what! It doesn't change the fact that mlooking in SP Doom is a cheat. Reason: it makes the game easier. Do I care if you're using cheats? No. As I said it's your problem.

[HobbsTiger1]

I have my own quote dissection, with most of those quotes.

*Begin post dissection*

So somehow because I prefer to aim manually my gameplay experience is less "true" than yours?

It is less true to Doom, from an academic standpoint.

I suppose you're of the mind that running a Quakeworld client that includes positional and model frame interpolation is "cheating" too because the normal choppiness makes me nauseous and dizzy as well?

I find this ironic since by manually aiming I'm only doing on my own what the game would do automatically for me, whereas jumping - which the game was never designed for - allows you to reach places you never could before or shortcut other areas.

First, I'm the one that jumps, not Belial. Second, name a wad where you can shortcut.

I don't particularly like it when someone else tries to dictate to me how I should play a single-player game on my own system.

AFAICS hes not dictating.

If using an option is cheating by your definition, then I hereby demand you use only default settings from this point onward. Doesn't sound too appealing, does it?

Doesn't sound so bad.

Options are there for a reason, and besides the fact that Doom.exe won't work with Win2k it's precisely because of those options I play Zdoom. As far as I'm concerned the only problem cheating out there consists of wallhacks, aimbots, and speedhacks during multiplayer, and such things I have zero tolerance for. If someone wants to iddqd and idkfa and go bunny-hopping all the way through Doom why should I care? It's not detracting from my gameplay experience what they do on their own single player game.

And your point is?

What you never bothered to ask me is if I am willing to play without crosshair or manual aiming, which I am, and which I did for years. I played shareware Doom when it was distributed via BBS and floppy disks. I played Wolfenstein 3D when it was cutting edge. I've played all the way through Doom 1 using only a pistol, and I've beaten Wolf using only a knife. I'm as oldschool as you can get, so you might want to give me a little credit here instead of bashing me just because I like to aim on my own.

NO ONE CARES

*End post dissection*

[Belial]

I should now edit my post to include the bunny pic

[Phoenix9000]

Ok, lets play the post dissecting game.

If you insist.

Yes, in a classic Doom sense.

I thought we were talking about ZDoom here, not Doom.exe.

I suppose you're of the mind that running a Quakeworld client that includes positional and model frame interpolation is "cheating" too because the normal choppiness makes me nauseous and dizzy as well?

I have no idea what you just said

How about I clarify it then. Quake has no interpolation code. Interpolation, for the uneducated, is the part of the rendering code that fills in the gaps between model frames and makes movement smooth and not jerky. Play Quake 1, then play Quake 2, and watch the way the player models behave and you'll understand what I'm talking about.

No, you're wrong. Manual aiming is much less limited than Doom's autoaim. The jumping example is total crap, because a) Doom wasn't designed for mouselook either, b) mlook lets you kill map30 noprob.

You brought up map30, not me. Frankly I couldn't care less about map30 in this discussion. I was merely pointing out that your attitude of "my way is ok, your way isn't" is just your way of hypocritically talking down to someone you disagree with. I can see that went straight over your head.

Not my rules, classic Doom rules. Not my method, Doom's method.

Hmm... *checks the forum name* Yep, this is ZDoom, not Doom.exe, not Doom2.exe, so I guess those "Doom rules" are still irrelevant to this discussion.

What makes you right and me wrong, hmm? I only see this as a difference in preference.

Correct.

Then what's your problem here?

I'm not telling you anything, it's just the way I see it.

You play your way, I'll play mine. I've got no problem with that.

I don't give a...

You gave enough of one to reply, didn't you? Nice circumventing of forum filters and rules. I see you have the utmost respect for the developers and moderators here.

Show me a +mlook option in Doom. I'd really like to see that.

Funny, I don't remember there being a jump option either. *double-checks the forum name again*. Yup, still has a z in front of "doom". Thought so.

If using an option is cheating by your definition, then I hereby demand you use only default settings from this point onward. Doesn't sound too appealing, does it?

Actually, it does.

Good for you!

Am I supposed to go WOW or sth? The fact that I had an Atari at the time and didn't play Doom in Dec '93 doesn't change anything. The Wolf example is masochistic. The Doom pistol thingy is laughable. I did it on Tyson, Pacifist (w/o ep4 and e2m8), and NM. So what! It doesn't change the fact that mlooking in SP Doom is a cheat. Reason: it makes the game easier. Do I care if you're using cheats? No. As I said it's your problem.

Well you seemed to have the attitude that your way was the only old-school way, so I felt I'd give you a little background on my gaming experiences to provide some point of reference. I can see that you can't pass up even the smallest opportunity to act like a typical CS player, so forgive me for giving you even the smallest benefit of the doubt. As for Mlook, in Zdoom it is an option available from the main menu, same as jumping. You consider using an option that's directly available from the menu a cheat, I do not. Mlook is off-limits as far as your concerned, yet jumping is not. What I don't grasp here is why one would be any more of a cheat than the other by your definition. Then again, perhaps I am expecting too much by seeking some degree of consistency within your argument. I apoligize, I won't make the mistake of expecting meaningful discussion here from this point onward.

Hobbs: You're welcome for the DOSBox info.

[Belial]

General reply to all stuff about this being a ZDoom forum:

The point where you came into the discussion, we weren't talking about ZDoom. It was about PrBoom vs. having a vanilla compatible comp.

Quake thing: I don't care about Quake.

Jumping thing: Read Hobbs'es post. I clearly said "I've never used mouselook in ZDoom (and never will), and never use jumping if the wad does not allow it. "

When I want to say fuck, I will do it. Doesn't have shit to do with my respect for Randy.

Never played Counterstrike (that what you meant by CS?)

Availability of the option: Most of the menus in ZDoom can be considered cheat menus to some extent. Ever heard of those? The crosshair is a cheat, the compat. option for not infinitely tall actors is a cheat. Everything that makes playing ORIGINAL DOOM WADS easier is a cheat in my book. Don't care what you do with ZDoom-specific wads. And one last thing: I'll be blunt - I know I'm right . Why? Because that's the opinion of the Doom-gods at Compet-N. And they chose PrBoom as their port of choice because of it's true Doom feel.

Then again, perhaps I am expecting too much by seeking some degree of consistency within your argument. I apoligize, I won't make the mistake of expecting meaningful discussion here from this point onward.

You're the one who can't find consistency in my post. Hobbs said the same thing and he's perfectly ok. Perhaps I am expecting too much by seeking some degree of consistency within your argument.