Bitter Heretic: Melee combat emphasise

[Jarewill]

Well, took me a while, but I finally have beaten D'Sparil with this mod.
I must say, I don't particularly like the Raven games, but your mod actually made me play Heretic and enjoy playing it.

The greatsword is definitely my favorite weapon of the bunch, it feels so powerful and heavy to use. I love it!
However, I would say that the slot position is kinda awkward. Having to reach to 9 to select the sword isn't all that comfortable in my opinion.
Also holding altfire with the greatsword puts the sword down after a while, just to raise it back up again.

One thing I noticed is that I can't reload my wand if I have only 1 crystal left.
I assume it's supposed to be like: "You have 1 crystal remaining, counting the one in the wand itself"
But it did confuse me at first, thinking that I didn't have something important bound to a button.

But this is still really enjoyable!
I still keep coming back to play this every so often, due to just how fun the melee combat feels in this.

[Captain J]

I assume it's supposed to be like: "You have 1 crystal remaining, counting the one in the wand itself"
But it did confuse me at first, thinking that I didn't have something important bound to a button.

Well it's kinda reasonable if you think about it. The crystal on your wand does count as remaining crystal and you can't reload if you only have one.

Also here's the extra suggestion: Tar Bottle's exploding time and the hitscan-esq projectiles are both unpredictable. Since Corvus runs quite slowly, it's dangerous to use and would burn him too. Making projectiles visible or adding another frame before exploding might be at least safe.

[Lagi]

Bloody, Medieval, Gory, and just Gorgeous. You manage to make the Heretic much more challenging and tactical than usual. I love the changes and the gore effect! It's a wonderful feeling when i kill a flock of zombies with a mace.

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- When Gargoyle gets crushed very quickly, one of its gib(mostly a part of the rib) floats and does not disappear.

- When i guard with my Mace, Sword, Gauntlets, Axe or a Shield on the watery surface, tons of water splash spawns and i have no i idea why this is happening!

- If you reload your Elven Wand while the ammo is full, you can brighten it up and use it as a Torch. Which is very useful... Except i can waste my Crystals by keep doing that while it's still lighten up.

- So i threw my last Axe. There's no way to recover it back?

- Corvus has Call of Duty kind of system now: He can regenerate and runs very slowly. Because of running slowly, especially when you're not running forward, it's hard to dodge some of the enemies' attack. Is there any way to run faster, or dash for a second?

- If i overheat(?) my Gauntlets, i can't use them anymore. How can i decrease the heat meter? Is this just goes off but very slowly? Also the red light would get stuck on me if i hold my Fire button until it's gone.

- Ethereal Crossbow is realistically good now. But not too much: because i can't recover the launched arrow! And i'm talking about the solid one, of course.

- Tomb of Power... You know, there could be another way to make it much more various, more powerful. It currently have ice spells and nothing else. Extra elemental attack would be awesome.

- You can lose your Trident easily by just throwing it. Once it hits either enemy or the hard surface, then it's gone.

- Krater of Might only gives you the speed. Would be nice if it also gives certain ammo for Weapons that use rare ammo. Such as Trident.

And that's about it. It gets really real!

Thats some excellent feedback, Captain.
The word I stick to is "prosaic". Means that you have this feeling of lose (when ghost take your precious crossbow just like that), items looks mundane/ not attractive , or that there is some "labors" like reloading crystals, or "inconvenience" using torch for light.

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- When Gargoyle gets crushed very quickly, one of its gib(mostly a part of the rib) floats and does not disappear.
I will slaughter some imps today to check it.

- When i guard with my Mace, Sword, Gauntlets, Axe or a Shield on the watery surface, tons of water splash spawns and i have no i idea why this is happening!
yes, that's issue coming from code.
Block is sending invisible projectiles that stun monsters if they attack when you block. Not sure if GZdoom foreseen turn off of decals in this case? I can set fixed pitch, but you wont be able to block Gargoyles attack from above then.
similar issue is with ice corpses, you can shatter them with block. If I change block projectiles type into Ice, then you are healing Wendigo when you block .Will see what I can do

- If you reload your Elven Wand while the ammo is full, you can brighten it up and use it as a Torch. Which is very useful... Except i can waste my Crystals by keep doing that while it's still lighten up.
thx will check it


- So i threw my last Axe. There's no way to recover it back?
Yes. there is absolutely plenty of axes dropping from Knights and Sabreclaws. Its incline to ever change to other weapon (because you throw axes away). I thought about thrown axe working like boomerang. But collecting axes-pickup from monsters is more in spirit of doom


- Corvus has Call of Duty kind of system now: He can regenerate and runs very slowly. Because of running slowly, especially when you're not running forward, it's hard to dodge some of the enemies' attack. Is there any way to run faster, or dash for a second?
if you hide weapon. If you drink Krater.
slower side movement is intentional. When i discover running in vanilla Heretic ( i press shift for the first time), the game become an odd Fighter Jet simulator, where i run in circle, out running everything.
I want to incline player to block attacks, inside sidestepping them. And thats why there is regeneration also, because you will get hit.
if you hide weapon, you can dash (fire + crouch) - but its used to escape being encircled by monster, its not really an acrobatic dash.

- If i overheat(?) my Gauntlets, i can't use them anymore. How can i decrease the heat meter? Is this just goes off but very slowly? Also the red light would get stuck on me if i hold my Fire button until it's gone.

You cant, you need to find new pair. The "heat" dont decrease. Its because it was very underwhelming, to find in next levels (esp. in some cool secrets), again NecroGloves. Now you are happy every time. Also the shock is working as specific medpack.
But your idea of cooling down is interesting. And make sens. I will consider it.
I will check the red light bug.

- Ethereal Crossbow is realistically good now. But not too much: because i can't recover the launched arrow! And i'm talking about the solid one, of course.
I decide to keep crossbow powerful, for the price of scarce ammo. Recovering bolts means that you would have less incentive to change weapon or finding new quiver would be less a treasure moment.
two type of ammo for crossbow (green and solid) would only complicate the game - i even test it before, where green become solid if you touch ghost.

- Tomb of Power... You know, there could be another way to make it much more various, more powerful. It currently have ice spells and nothing else. Extra elemental attack would be awesome.
I needed "Ice" weapon, and the book was only choice. Extra element would also make other equipment less special. If you could burn foes with Tome of Power, hammer will feel less unique. multiple attack would bloat this weapon, but agree changing page would feel right.

- You can lose your Trident easily by just throwing it. Once it hits either enemy or the hard surface, then it's gone.
every Ophidian drop trident, its quite common ammo. If you be able to recovered it back, i would have to decrease the thrown trident power. It wont be a good gameplay choice.
you can recover hammer, only because its a rare weapon.

- Krater of Might only gives you the speed. Would be nice if it also gives certain ammo for Weapons that use rare ammo. Such as Trident.

Speed is Might. The stronger muscle-power you have the faster you move. The speed in game is king. As you notice you crave for faster strafe speed to have even more edge over the slower enemies.
Thematically you dring the Krater, how that suppose to fill the charge in trident? The violet liquid is something that affect biological organism.

I was thinking that drinking Krater could allow you to do more damage, but you already killing everything with 2x hits.
Or you could lift something heavy. But this would require to create custom maps, where you unblock passage (by lifting rock or whatever). Maybe throw barrels? Or maybe being able to lift super heavy weapon - hammer (but what if you are not on drugs? you will not be able to use it).
Healing is already covered my numerous of methods (bandage, ointment, urn, regeneration, Necro Gauntlets, morphing to chicken).

[Lagi]

Well, took me a while, but I finally have beaten D'Sparil with this mod.
I must say, I don't particularly like the Raven games, but your mod actually made me play Heretic and enjoy playing it.

Thank You for that message. Its brighten my day, and refill my stamina bar .

The greatsword is definitely my favorite weapon of the bunch, it feels so powerful and heavy to use. I love it!
However, I would say that the slot position is kinda awkward. Having to reach to 9 to select the sword isn't all that comfortable in my opinion.

I recommend to use weapon wheel (included in pk3, check options), bind it to f.ex. capslock

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Also holding altfire with the greatsword puts the sword down after a while, just to raise it back up again.

Will check and fix it. [ this is fixed ]

One thing I noticed is that I can't reload my wand if I have only 1 crystal left.
I assume it's supposed to be like: "You have 1 crystal remaining, counting the one in the wand itself"
But it did confuse me at first, thinking that I didn't have something important bound to a button.

yes, you are right.

hmm... if you start with 0 crystal and be able to shoot with the one on stick it would feel strange. You would presume you have no ammo.

If I start with trickery to remove ammo, when crystal is depleted (grey), it would be not any less confusing. "ok i have 3 crystal, but the one on wand is grey, so I have total 2 good crystal to use" "my crystal is flickering, do i still have one spare in inventory or does it mean this one is not empty?"

need to think about it.

edit:

The crystal on your wand does count as remaining crystal and you can't reload if you only have one.

yes, this is the logic I follow here.

But this is still really enjoyable!
I still keep coming back to play this every so often, due to just how fun the melee combat feels in this.

[Lagi]

Also here's the extra suggestion: Tar Bottle's exploding time and the hitscan-esq projectiles are both unpredictable. Since Corvus runs quite slowly, it's dangerous to use and would burn him too. Making projectiles visible or adding another frame before exploding might be at least safe.

check the tar bottle knot. the candle slowly going down (when ignite). I think there is 3 steps. I notice it from distance when it blow (because i have a big screen ).
You can completely avoid all projectile burns if you jump (the flame will go under).

[Captain J]

Thanks for the clear and detailed reply. I really had fun playing this mod, really! Glad that Heretic is getting some spotlight.

I will slaughter some imps today to check it.

Here's the screenie, just to be sure.

yes, that's issue coming from code.
Block is sending invisible projectiles that stun monsters if they attack when you block. Not sure if GZdoom foreseen turn off of decals in this case? I can set fixed pitch, but you wont be able to block Gargoyles attack from above then.
similar issue is with ice corpses, you can shatter them with block. If I change block projectiles type into Ice, then you are healing Wendigo when you block .Will see what I can do

Maybe this flag: DONTSPLASH might help you to prevent the splashing.

I was thinking that drinking Krater could allow you to do more damage, but you already killing everything with 2x hits.

Krater gives you the power, while the Tomb of power does some ice magic... It's a nicely changing concept, except you probably should rename the Tomb of power into Tomb of Ice. Heh

But i was thinking about Krater increasing your weapon speed, or superior protection. Hence it has the word Power in the name.

Aaaand here's more feedback:
- When i thrust with my Trident, the animation flickers a bit.

- Typing the cheat code will hurt Corvus for some reason. No, i'm not talking about IDDQD. I mean Heretic's own cheat codes.

[Lagi]

hmm this ribs actually looks good
similar issue is with Golem arm, it sometimes stuck on top of some decoration and spin endlessly. If I make it non solid, it would cause more problem that it solve.

thanks for DONTSPLASH - will test it now. [WORK LIKE A CHARM - THANKS]

Tome of Power is item from original heretic, part of its heritage. Its even mention in the lore. There is 7 tome of powers, that are sacred. Heretic lore is nonsense .
ok, if you find second tome you will be able to shoot lightnings and triple book would serve as balancing force for your uneven table. Whats your ideas Captain?

increasing weapon speed is good idea - would require some effort to alter all animations timing code for melee weapons though.

will check trident thrust [ fix: remove one TNT1 A 1, there is smooth transition from side incline 3rd thrust into the forward thrust , i add 1 frame to return animation from side incline thrust-looks smoother, time is same]

cheat are hardcoded. You receive max gauntlets "heat", that overheat destroy gauntlets and damage you. Same is with sword nicks (you get maximum jagged blade). In case of this two weapons the cheat is not beneficial, because ammo is something you dont want to collect. Try : summon gauntlets

[Captain J]

No need to put more new things to Tomb of Power unless it's really needed. Just do what you want! I don't mind. Also glad DONTSPLASH flag worked like a charm! It's a very useful flag when it comes to watery terrain.

[Lagi]

fix [uploaded]:
-cannot reload wand if crystal is shining already
-red gauntlets light dont stay if you overheat gloves, and lose it
-trident thrust not flickering, fix thrust animation (esp. with incline thrust)
-fix sword block
-remove water splash from blocking

[Lagi]

I can make a short video on my channel if you like ..

It would interesting to see someone playing bitter heretic.
I would like to watch video from your gameplay.

[Ferretmanjcdenton]

https://youtu.be/I8ZFBRx48zM

Here ...I have over 250 vids online... maybe you like some other ones also ..

[Captain J]

Use Youtube URL like this to display the vid!

[Lagi]

you playing on your phone? dont you hate fingering the touch screen.

anyway you make that video quite time ago. Nice you show lots of features in short time. If you make 200 vids, then maybe its worth to add some voice commentary like:
" today i present you crappy heretic mod, where you walk slower ... i know TF he was thinking. But at least you can freeze enemies so its cool. Thanks for watching click subscribe and I recommended RAID mmo because you know why"

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uploaded;
- fix map gem UI - thanks 3saster
- fix GoldWand (add particles, add light flare. slower the firerate by 5 (10%), because goldwand feel too much like a gun)
- set GoldWand ammo to 0 - will see if its more or less confusing
- gauntlets are cooling down very slowly
- limit grenades to 8x (now you will use them much more)

thoughts:
-despite my efforts gizmos are not mirrored around doors, but i think im the only one who is annoyed by that.

- i set mace as always causing pain weapon. Its much stronger tool then, that is painlock everything all the time.
1. This completely remove validity from blocking.
2. If i balance it by damage reduce or slower swing, its a boring stunlocking gameplay. What player suppose to do? change weapon after each hit?
Mace currently hit 3 targets instead 2 (or 1) like axe, which is also faster.

- i test Wendigo and DeathKnight, and must say that as tier 2.5 monsters they work very well. They HP bloated, and you need to be clever to defeat them, instead going for punches exchange. I play the Crypt level twice today, and its possible to fight even with multiple of those gentlemen's. DeathKnight flame damage seems too big, but its hard to judge. Otherwise there is not really a tougher opponent in game.

- i want to make blocking - semi automatic. You have to click each time to block, you cannot just hold altfire. But after playing with monster multiplier, i find it annoying. I was panic clicking. And it discourage me from blocking. So maybe the raise and lowering weapon for block looks odd, but in heat of battle it start to make sens.

[Captain J]

Played Heretic with this mod again and i just found out:

- Since Corvus' speed is realistically slow, it's quite hard to dodge Maulotaur's dashing attack. It feels like the game force me to use the Krater, which is limited or doesn't exist in certain maps. But i have plenty of ammo, so can we expect it to stun and stop dashing when it goes to pain state?

- Maulotaurs can damage themselves with their fire magic.

- You can see how much damage you gave to It and Iron Lich by looking at their sprite. But not D'Sparil and his Serpent, though.

- I still can use Tomb of Power although all the pages are gone. Intentional?

[Lagi]

Played Heretic with this mod again and i just found out:

- Since Corvus' speed is realistically slow, it's quite hard to dodge Maulotaur's dashing attack. It feels like the game force me to use the Krater, which is limited or doesn't exist in certain maps. But i have plenty of ammo, so can we expect it to stun and stop dashing when it goes to pain state?

just play E2M8 on hard, with 3 Maulotaurs. Im not sure if charge is disrupt by Pain (i hit him with shield before he bumps into me, & it appear to work. Shield hit always cause pain), his pain chance are low.

The difficulty of this fight was easy-average. Before Maulotarus charge was not homing on player, and this bull rush was disadvantage maneuver, never land on player, left Bull exposed for multiple projectiles attack, exclude him from combat for long time. This charge is doing low damage, even less if you block before impact. You can block it with Ice wall. You can guide the charge at another monsters. Maulotaur is not immortal anymore when he is charging.

- Maulotaurs can damage themselves with their fire magic.
hmm... maybe i give him Fire Resistance. It would also reduce the effectiveness of hammer in boss fights. Fire I presume is coming from flame downfall from exploding hammer projectile? Im not a fan of "donthurt source" flags, I believe in-fights and self damage are big part of fun factor in doom-esque games.

- You can see how much damage you gave to It and Iron Lich by looking at their sprite. But not D'Sparil and his Serpent, though.
D'Sparil is used only once in the game. And not in any other mappacks (that i play). He has already 2x step sequence. Im not sure if I want to draw extra sprites for all rotations just for that. Maybe I do something cheap like add blood stain (or hue the colors).


- I still can use Tomb of Power although all the pages are gone. Intentional?
yes,
there is risk of becoming chicken, if you keep doing that. Being a chicken is beneficial in multiple occasions- heal you back, you are faster, smaller (breaking level sequence when crouch is not enough ). im doing it on purpose often.

thanks

edit:

• Maulotaur has 33% resistance to fire (hammer, tar, torch, own fire attacks)
• maulotaur melee attack was improved, now he hit flying gargoyles and even zombies. Still if you crouch you avoid his attack.
• add Dsparil footman a wound state (yes, only blue makeup, when his half HP. sorry i know you expect hanging guts that sway in the wind , give me a break)

edit:
i notice monsters never attack Maulotaurs Well I wouldnt mess with them also, but that looks "special".