Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Matt » Thu May 30, 2019 6:34 pm

I gotta admit, if they're willing to settle with just 3DR rebranding the entire project I'm personally going to chalk that up as a net positive for all involved, given:

- let's face it everyone trips up trying to say this instead of "Iron Maiden"
- "Ion" (John) is a boy's name which makes the dissonance - especially when combined with "Maiden" - hit even harder
- most of the weapons are kinetics

but what if the game centered around lasers and a thunderbolt weapon mcguffin and explored gender dysphoria themes at length
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby JadedLexi » Thu May 30, 2019 6:38 pm

Matt wrote:-let's face it everyone trips up trying to say this instead of "Iron Maiden"

It's really not as confusing as they'd have people believe.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Matt » Thu May 30, 2019 8:55 pm

Not really confusing intellectually and consciously, it's almost like my mind feels like it's tripping over it, like I'm trying to read this.

It's not going to cause me to make a mistaken decision or act on a mistaken belief, but it's just psychologically uncomfortable.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Enjay » Fri May 31, 2019 12:24 am

My immediate reaction on reading the name was "obvious pun is obvious". Like Matt, I'm not going to mistake the product, but "psychologically uncomfortable " works as a description. It's almost as if I want to read it as Iron Maiden , (even though on a daily basis at work I talk about ions). The combination of the two words is just so "Iron Maidenish" IMO. It's hard to believe that wasn't intentional. I'm not saying that it was malicious or anything, but almost certainly intentional and probably misguided when considering the llikely legal reaction.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Rachael » Fri May 31, 2019 6:49 am

The thing is, as has been pointed out by others, the band really doesn't truly own the phrase. As far as I am aware it has existed before they did, and the claimed similarity in the logos is just bollocks.

Of course, I am not a judge, and I will not be presiding over that case.

I am just disappointed that yet another party seems to want to take 3D Realms to court over something so fucking pointless.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Gez » Fri May 31, 2019 7:16 am

NeuralStunner wrote:On the subject of deliberate logo simialrity: I'm surprised SEUM hasn't been eaten alive by Zenimax.


Odd name. The developers appear to be German, I kinda expected them to be French. ("seum" is French slang which in a gaming context could be roughtly translated as "ragequitting mood", which would fit with that game's presentation as a hardcore speedrunning challenge.)
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri May 31, 2019 7:29 am

NeuralStunner wrote:On the subject of deliberate logo simialrity: I'm surprised SEUM hasn't been eaten alive by Zenimax.


I think on technical terms they could, but ultimately the important question is "is it worth it?" They'd only get some negative press for it and gain nothing. This game does in no way try to come across as a Doom-rip-off, it's merely the likeness of the logo. The best course of action in cases like this may be to just ignore it - the game just looks too niche -, because at worst they suffer no damage and at best the logo's likeness may provide them with a few more customers themselves who get reminded of Doom by it.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby InsanityBringer » Fri May 31, 2019 10:40 am

Zenimax has been incredibly aggressive about trademarks in the past though. I won't say anything of the DRL situation, but going after an indie for using "prey" in their game's title (as part of a longer phrase, like "prey of the hunters") just strikes me as ridiculous.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Rachael » Fri May 31, 2019 10:43 am

About 18 minutes after this post, Leonard French is going to do a live stream where he discusses the legal implications of this, and might even go over what both Iron Maiden and 3D Realms can actually do about this, and what their legal limitations might possibly be.

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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Enjay » Fri May 31, 2019 12:20 pm

Interesting stream [thanks]. Caught most of it live. His comments were largely in line with what my completely unqualified hunches are.

One thing I didn't catch him talking about (maybe he did) was not just about how similar the words are spelling-wise, but how they sound. I don't know how much of an issue that can be legally. For example when he was being very careful about his pronunciation of ion/iron I knew what he was saying. However, because I was listening to the stream while doing something else, several times I had to stop and look at the stream to pay it more attention because I'd lost track of whether he's said ion or iron.

The stylisation of the words are certainly different font-wise but the Ion Maiden logo does have a heavy metal feel to it. Is that enough for people to associate it with the music type and therefore the band? Either way, they (the band) do have that "Word Mark" form of trade mark. So the actual words, not just their presentation via font/colour are trademarked to the band. One letter difference and a very similar sounding word does seem to be Iron Maiden's strongest aspect of their case.

I agree that the Eddie emoticon and the Ion Maiden skull is a complete non-starter. They are not similar.

As for the informed/uninformed/accidental purchase thing, he did sort of dismiss that (possibly rightly so). Certainly, his first example of no one is likely to buy a copy of Ion Maiden thinking that they were getting Iron Maiden tickets was an extreme and probably silly example. However, I'm sure we've all had that off-brand gift from a well-meaning relative that misses the mark. I could imagine someone saying "I got you a game by that band you like".


When it comes down to it, I can't believe that during the discussion to decide on the game name no-one thought "heh, sounds like Iron Maiden [and meant the band name]". And, if someone did, to me that should have been warning enough of "we might get into trouble using that".
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Matt » Fri May 31, 2019 12:35 pm

I could imagine someone saying "I got you a game by that band you like".
........yes, that situation :shock:

I hope 3DR settles soon
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby crazyflyingdonut » Fri May 31, 2019 1:23 pm

Caligari87 wrote:
crazyflyingdonut wrote:I was planning on buying that game! god damn it...

You still can, it's not being taken down. If anything I'd say it's better to buy it and send a little extra money to the studio so they can fight this.

8-)


I wanted the wait until the game was finished so that I won't play it while it's in early access.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby NeuralStunner » Fri May 31, 2019 2:13 pm

crazyflyingdonut wrote:I wanted the wait until the game was finished so that I won't play it while it's in early access.
Buying in EA nets the preview campaign and the full game once it hits release. It's basically a pre-order bonus that you can play with right away.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Rachael » Fri May 31, 2019 2:21 pm

crazyflyingdonut wrote:I wanted the wait until the game was finished so that I won't play it while it's in early access.

Well - the game might never see the light of day unless this can be fought.

This is a bullshit lawsuit, in my opinion, and is nothing more than a cash grab. I never knew about the Iron Maiden band before this, but I have lost a lot of respect for them because of it. This is a really shitty thing to do to a very well-respected indie gaming company that's already been hit hard multiple times.

The rebellious part of me is hoping they fight this to the bitter end, win their defense fees back from Iron Maiden, and that such things are not attempted again. But the realistic (maybe cynical?) part of me knows that's just really not likely to happen.

However - there's a way to make sure my prediction hopefully never comes true. If we as fans of 3D Realms were willing to band together to raise funds for 3D Realms' legal team - maybe it might be possible to actually beat this? I don't know - I've never done such a thing before - and I certainly have no money of my own that I'd be able to contribute. :( But hey, it's something to consider.
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Re: Iron Maiden files trademark lawsuit against Ion Maiden

Postby Gez » Fri May 31, 2019 4:31 pm

Enjay wrote:I could imagine someone saying "I got you a game by that band you like".


That'd require a box release. Is it planned? I thought it was a Steam/GOG-only thing; physical distribution being expensive and risky.
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