[Sigil] Romero's fifth Doom episode released

Discuss anything ZDoom-related that doesn't fall into one of the other categories.

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Rachael » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:44 am

osjclatchford wrote:I literally have absolutely no surprise about this at all. Romero is infamous for his hyperbolic jumping the gun to the point of having literally no concept of time as far as how long things will take. It's happened time and time again. Look at that 'press release' he made about what would be in quake before it came out. I can only imagine the cringing from the rest of the id team when they read all his ott and unfounded promisies. I mean I don't get it either. Hes had delays enough times now to have learnt to keep shtum untill you've got all the answers...
To be honest, It should be funny, what with the diakatana stuff and all but in truth it's just sad... And not in a "sad we've got to wait" way but the other sad...

So in other words, John Romero is just a human being like the rest of us.

Don't get me wrong - I completely understand how the multiple delays in shipping the mod and the boxes bungles things up, and I know how bloody frustrating that is. But this post betrays an unreasonable expectation and standard for perfection that none of us have. John Romero is not a god, and I see it over and over again where people try to worship the very ground upon which he walks.

Dude - chill - he's just a dude - who was in the right place, at the right time, and had the right skills in that moment. Nothing more. Fuckery aside, he wants to do something for the game that's made him the famous person he is today. And that's something I admire in him. Most developers would probably be embarrassed about what they did 25 years ago.

Still though - fuckery is fuckery, and these delays are not acceptable. Like I said, though - he's only human and he makes mistakes, too.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Gez » Thu Apr 18, 2019 5:57 am

It's not at all comparable to Daikatana, since it's not a problem with development. It's gone gold already. The issue is with the physical goodies, which takes more time than expected, a phenomenon also known as "kickstarter's bane". Each of the goodies is made by a different company and then they're all centralized and packed by another different company, the aptly-named Limited Run, and they didn't factor in all the time it'd take if some of said companies ran into snags. They've mentioned problems for example with the Romero's head pewter figure.
Gez
 
 
 
Joined: 06 Jul 2007

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby osjclatchford » Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:27 pm

Believe me I don't actually care whether this gets released at all. Nor do I think Romero is a god. Of that I can assure you. Lol
Just felt it was a bit sad... It appears like he just can't let it go... I'm sure that may not be the case, but to me anyhow, it's how it seems. And that seems sad somehow...

Yeah you could say the same about any of us modders, but we're fans, you expect that somehow. But yeah he's always said he's a gamer and fan first and a developer second so. Yeah I guess that true then... I dunno.

As for the unexpected third party delays. The point I'm making there (as in my biz this happens a lot) you don't give any dates out till the third party stuff is set in stone... That's just biz savvy that anyone should follow. Not an unrealistic expectation at all as far as I'm concerned...

Oh and to set it straight here, I'm not at all angry. I'm not even disappointed. Just filled with an "aw... Bless" kinda resigned compassion... to me anyhow, It's just like he's stuck in a production timeloop...Guess that didn't come out right in the other post...
osjclatchford
 
Joined: 07 Feb 2011

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Rachael » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:23 pm

osjclatchford wrote:It appears like he just can't let it go... I'm sure that may not be the case, but to me anyhow, it's how it seems. And that seems sad somehow...

Actually - I can't blame him at all. This game MADE him. For all his flaws and blunders - this game is what made him the "John Romero" in the public consciousness - and not just some random John with a last name Romero that nobody's ever heard of. To that, I can't blame him for having some attachment to it. It may also be nostalgic to him - he may still have very strong memories from his time at id Software, where he probably felt important and loved by his colleagues. There's nothing wrong with reminiscing and wanting to go back to those days. After all - this is 25 years we're talking about. The rose-tinted goggles effect is really strong with that kind of a time gap. The way I would know is - I have very fond memories of my time in high school, despite the troubles I had.

But I am not him - this is all purely speculation on my part and I can't speak for him - it's all just a best guess based on my own experiences and knowledge and trying to fit the puzzle together.

osjclatchford wrote:As for the unexpected third party delays. The point I'm making there (as in my biz this happens a lot) you don't give any dates out till the third party stuff is set in stone... That's just biz savvy that anyone should follow. Not an unrealistic expectation at all as far as I'm concerned...


I don't know. In any entertainment business you want to build hype - that's how you build loyalty and get money - but sometimes you do fall into that dangerous pitfall of being unable to deliver and that can lead to a lot of problems. I notice that besides public outrage there is very little accountability to this. Not that I am saying Romero did this intentionally, and you're absolutely right that setting stone-clad deadlines is the wrong way to handle it, but knowing a date and having something to look forward to is a lot better than "when it's ready" for an end-user - especially concerning pre-orders, of which this was only available as exclusively. (As far as I know)

osjclatchford wrote:Believe me I don't actually care whether this gets released at all. Nor do I think Romero is a god. Of that I can assure you. Lol


osjclatchford wrote:Oh and to set it straight here, I'm not at all angry. I'm not even disappointed. Just filled with an "aw... Bless" kinda resigned compassion... to me anyhow, It's just like he's stuck in a production timeloop...Guess that didn't come out right in the other post...

Understandable. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby NeuralStunner » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:24 pm

Gez wrote:The issue is with the physical goodies, which takes more time than expected, a phenomenon also known as "kickstarter's bane". Each of the goodies is made by a different company and then they're all centralized and packed by another different company, the aptly-named Limited Run, and they didn't factor in all the time it'd take if some of said companies ran into snags. They've mentioned problems for example with the Romero's head pewter figure.
This. Most of the campaigns I've joined have hit delays because of outside services used. Often involving drafts/prototypes not being quite good enough, which you might note is the exact opposite of not giving a damn.

But I guess it's just easier to assume that the person you can identify is in the wrong.


Re: "the Daikatana stuff", John's maintained a healthy sense of humor about the thing, but damn. It's still got to sting having people bring up some stupid thing you did almost 20 years ago whenever they're the least bit annoyed. :?
User avatar
NeuralStunner
Cuddly but Packin'
 
 
 
Joined: 21 Jul 2009
Location: Indiana, USA
Discord: NeuralStunner#1293
Operating System: Windows Vista/7 64-bit

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Rachael » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:30 pm

NeuralStunner wrote:Re: "the Daikatana stuff", John's maintained a healthy sense of humor about the thing, but damn. It's still got to sting having people bring up some stupid thing you did almost 20 years ago whenever they're the least bit annoyed. :?

This is one of the primary reasons why I broke up with my ex. Every little mistake, no matter how minor, was held over my head with every successive mistake or even if it wasn't a mistake, something I did to make her controlling entitled ass unhappy.

Nobody who respects themselves puts up with that shit.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby osjclatchford » Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:35 am

@rachel,
you know it's a fair point you've made there regarding the entertainment biz. Hype must be important when garnering interest.

As for the nostalgia, sure you know what he is more than entitled. Although he's always played the big I am in the past, You've only got to read his more recent stuff to know he feels grateful to the fans and to doom itself for giving him, well everything...
How can I talk there anyhow. I'm still playing it so...

Re. my diakatana reference, ok that was a cheap shot and a poor attempt at a sense of ironic humor regarding the delays. You'll note I also pointed out his quake press release that no-one has picked up on. The idea I was saying here is; His got form. Delays should be expected.

So I guess I was surprised that others were surprised or even angry, it seems...

Then I just found the whole thing sad.
osjclatchford
 
Joined: 07 Feb 2011

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:03 am

WTF is it with you people?
Delays happen not only in game development for all kinds of reasons, and 90% of the time it's not the people who have to deal with the consequences are responsible. Just one supplier needs to be late and a complete schedule can be rendered invalid.

That especially goes for the type of product we are dealing with here. I have no idea how many suppliers are involved directly or indirectly, but the more there are, the more likely it is that some part will be late. It can even be a secondary supplier that caused one of the primary suppliers not being able to finish the part they were supposed to do in time.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Kinsie » Sun May 26, 2019 2:03 am

Bumping with info of relevance: The free release of Sigil is coming out May 31. If you can't wait, wanna throw John a few bucks or just really like widdly-widdly guitar athletics, you can buy a digital download that includes the mapset and the Buckethead music WAD for €6.66. Of course.

There are two versions of the mod included: A "compat" version that replaces Episode 3 and uses a DEHACKED lump to change the text strings, and a standard version that defines a new episode, set up for both GZDoom and Eternity. As such, it should pretty much be a doddle to include into WADSmoosh or whatever (I'll probably hand-merge it into my own PK3 at some point).

I've played the first couple of maps with Jimmy's MIDI soundtrack, they're pretty fun!
User avatar
Kinsie
A Concept Utterly Obsolete
 
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Location: MAP33
Discord: Find Me...
Twitch ID: thekinsie

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby MFG38 » Sun May 26, 2019 7:37 am

It's a relief to finally get a release date, especially after the (at least) three months worth of delays.

Can't wait to lay my hands on it!
User avatar
MFG38
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Finland
Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8 64-bit

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby InsanityBringer » Sun May 26, 2019 11:33 am

hmm, tempted to drop on the digital download given that I was too cheap to go for the big boxes... it's better than nothing.
User avatar
InsanityBringer
 
Joined: 05 Jul 2007
Location: opening the forbidden box
Discord: InsanityBringer#9908

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby eyesoftheworld94 » Mon May 27, 2019 5:18 pm

Really great Episode! Sigil soundtrack rocks too.

Has anyone in the community thought of creating an animated INTERPIC for the episode?
eyesoftheworld94
 
Joined: 12 Nov 2015

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Hipnotic Rogue » Tue May 28, 2019 6:16 am

^
That would be a great idea.

I've a question for those cleverer than I. If I add Sigil to my autoload is there a chance that it could break compatibility with other WADs which add a 5th episode? Come to think about it, could I do the same with E1M4b and E1M8b, too?
User avatar
Hipnotic Rogue
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2016

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue May 28, 2019 6:35 am

I think it replaces the titlepic, but aside from that it's unlikely to cause conflicts.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Fifth Romero's Doom episode to be released

Postby Gez » Tue May 28, 2019 6:53 am

Hipnotic Rogue wrote:I've a question for those cleverer than I. If I add Sigil to my autoload is there a chance that it could break compatibility with other WADs which add a 5th episode?

Yeah, of course. It's not gonna work if you load both Sigil and Xaser's Lost Episode because they both use the E5Mx slots. You'd have to change one of them to the E6Mx slots.
Gez
 
 
 
Joined: 06 Jul 2007

PreviousNext

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Google [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 3 guests