SuperDon wrote:Hey man, this is some really good constructive criticism. Let me address where the money is going, and we might have to update the indiegogo page if this is causing concern.
This is some good information, thank you very much! In my experience, I've found transparency to be the best course of action when it comes to money, clarifying what's going to go where and why you need this. Putting this up on the page will likely go a long way towards convincing people.
ErinRedFen wrote:4k is like chump change for game development, I'm surprised they're not asking for more.
Dev environments always take more resources than the product, i mean heck, they gotta load up all the assets, even ones not being used in the level. Heck, Doom itself was developed on NEXT machines, not PCs even though they were the targets.
Also, not working as hard if you're not being paid makes sense.. of course you'd prioritize stuff that pays bills and puts food on the table.
I agree, 4k is chump change. Game development takes a long time and is expensive as hell. I also agree it's sensible for not working as hard if you're not getting paid for it.
But no, dev environments do not always take more resources than the project. You do
not need a behemoth of a rig to run GZDoombuilder. I can understand Don getting the lion's share, because 3D modelling and rendering can wreck GPUs something fierce. But for using GZDoombuilder? No way. I'll get into this a little bit later.
I sympathize with a 60-hour work week, I really do. Shit sucks. Shit sucks hard, especially when you have student loans to pay after the fact. But game development is something where you need to give your all, you can't half-ass it. And if you're not going to give your all to another person's project you signed on to then
why did you join the project in the first place?
RockstarRaccoon wrote:Awesome, a post I actually want to respond to!
[...] Well, I'm sorry that you feel that way.
Excuse me? What the hell, dude?
RockstarRaccoon wrote:I've seen other campaigns with less information, but yeah, it was a bit vague for me too. Basically, I can work a lot faster on hardware which could meet the requirements to test stuff like PBR in a detailed map, and could view the map in GZDB without significant lag, because GZDB is far less efficient when it comes to rendering than GZDoom itself, all while keeping other programs open so I don't have to open and close programs. To this end, I invested $800 of my last paycheck into a heavily-discounted 2016 MSI computer, which is far more than I spend on the computers I use to make websites and knick nacks for clients.
RockstarRaccoon wrote:...I'm... actually surprised you don't know this.
So, like, the DoomBuilder renderer that Code Imp wrote doesn't render maps in the same way as the actual renderer. That's why you can do things like go above the map and see a bunch of rooms at once, which is great for an editor, but it means that all the neat little tricks that someone can use to optimize a map don't do anything in that renderer, and in some cases can even slow it down. This becomes noticable when you're working with large maps, especially since, as Code Imp stated himself, that renderer is NOT built with the need for 30+ FPS in mind. So, in order to quickly map things in GZDB, I need a computer which can handle rendering a full map with models and lights and all that without any occlusion being handled. It also helps to be able to run the game at a relatively high fidelity without having to wait very long for it to load.
I do know this. I also know that it's
completely irrelevant, from my experience.
What "neat tricks" to you use? How do they slow things down? Why do you need a heftier rig to render a full map with models and lights and "all that"? What else is "all that"? Blade of Agony is currently one of the most demanding mods out there, and makes heavy use of lightning, 3D models, and more. I can barely run the mod at all. However, I just loaded up C2M3 in GZDoombuilder-Bugfix (the most demanding variation of Doombuilder there is) and there's no issue at all. I can scroll through the map with no troubles, I can see through the actors, the models, the lights, everything.
Yes, DB2, GZDoombuilder, GZDoombuilder-Bugfix, and Doombuilder X have wildly different renderers than the in-game renderer, but they're two completely different sets of software that handle two completely different purposes. In the end, DB2 and its derivatives are
much less demanding than GZDoom is, because the only thing it needs to process are the (limited) visuals of a map. It doesn't need to bother with half of the stuff GZDoom does. A 1k PC (even at a discount) is a far better rig than I've got, and I've made, like, two games in the engine already. Neither of them exactly with the scope you're going for, but suffice to say I know what working in this engine requires and what you're talking about just doesn't make sense.
RockstarRaccoon wrote:Yes. I'm not going to be doing enemy models or anything like that, but I was the one who set up all the Specular Mapping stuff so far, and some of the textures in there are edits of things he gave me. Remember, I've been screwing around with Doom on and off for over 10 years: I'm no stranger to doing my own art in GIMP.
RockstarRaccoon wrote:The first time I picked up DoomBuilder and screwed around with mapping to make and improve maps for me and my friends to play in Hexen was over 10 years ago, and I've been popping in and out of the community on and off to do various mapping things. There's probably a better way to say that, but Indiegogo has some strict character limits. If you have a better way to describe it then I'm all ears.
RockstarRaccoon wrote:Keep in mind, guys, me and Zan talk on Discord all the time in private, so you guys wouldn't know about the code I have lent that project or the detailed notes and Bug testing I have done.
Okay, the more you evade this, the more curious I get about this.
What have you been doing?
You keep saying you have 10 years of experience and stuff you've done, but what do you have as a tangible release to play? If you've been working in the engine for 10 years, surely you have something. What have you
done?
The twitter link for Membrane says that the new map is specifically made by you--as Marty mentioned earlier, it's probably the biggest quality drop. The first map simply looked bland, but the second map is...confusing, quite garish, and doesn't make sense. If this is the work we can expect from the final product, then that's not a good sign of quality. Simple placeholders are good; there's a regular 32-in-24 event on Doomworld where people put out simple map layouts in 24 hours and then decorate and detail them after the fact, and even when undecorated and undetailed as placeholders they look and play pretty fun. If this is the work you can put out with 10 years of experience, then what have you been doing?
A better way to describe it is simply listing what you've worked on. For a theoretical resume, Torm would put it simply: "Made Blade of Agony, Sapphire, Torment & Torture". Kinsie would say "Made Reelism". Even Don himself has an impressive piece of work, Jedi Knight Enhanced? That's amazing! There's none of this nonsense about "10 years of experience and mapping with credits on such and such (I gave advice and suggestions)".
Don's addressed the critiques and feedback head-on, and he has clear demonstrations of his work, what he can do, and what he's capable of. His (plainly seeable) work is great, too, the enemies look really cool and (even with the lack of animation feedback) the weapons look cool, the tentacle thing could be fun to play around with.
You've been continuing to speak in vague terms with explanations that don't really connect together or make sense.