Is it ilegal using MIDI versions of songs?

[VladTopol1706]

I wanted to use a MIDI version of Holy Wars by Megadeth and For whom the bell tolls by Metallica but i have the question if it is legal using these songs?

[Dancso]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've got a few thoughts on this which may contribute from a point of common sense.

Morally, if you're not gaining money either directly (project is a retail product) or indirectly (ie advertisements), you're not causing any harm, unless the author of the midi file itself has a conflicting license on use of their work. (ie not stated anywhere, or outright saying it shouldn't be used in other work)
From a technical standpoint, the midi file is only slightly comparable to an original song. It is definitely built on the same "schematics" so to speak, but it is not a direct copy as far as I understand. Heck, musicians cover eachother's tracks all the time and it's not only a legal practice, it is an essential part of the culture of music, given that a lot of inspiration is traded back and forth.
If you start exploring music, you will find that outside of covers, artists have been using the same beats, same percussion tracks, or slight variations of one to make their own songs.
In fact, this is very similar to what Bobby Prince did for Doom, he took some of his favourite heavy metal tracks and changed them just enough to be considered new work. Whether that would stand ground in court today for a fair legal use in a monetary product I don't know, but it's definitely a precedent.

Realistically, nobody would actually come after you if you used such a midi file in a Doom mod for example, and while it may be rude to disregard a lack of license (you can always ask first) or one that outright prohibits reuse, nobody that experiences your work within a smaller level of exposure (ie doom community) would really care about it. (again, I'm not a lawyer, just saying that the vast collection of mods made by fans have tons of these midi files from unidentified sources even)

[printz]

Bobby Prince however used his legal expertise to carefully write music so similar to actual hits. It's different to what is asked here, which is playing MIDIs more or less copying the same sheet music as the original songs.

Strictly morally speaking, hearing Metallica MIDIs in Doom mods made me familiar with heavy metal in general, including buying Metallica albums and then other metal band albums. So I can't say bands lose from this, especially considering that MIDI quality is so abysmal compared to the real thing.

[Reactor]

I don't think it's "ill eagle" to use MIDIs which were composed of commercial release songs. Basically a MIDI is a polyphonic ringtone, and anybody is fully allowed to create and distribute such things. Most notably, if you use a copyrighted song on Youtube, it'll be muted or deleted alltogether. However if you use a MIDI of that song instead, nobody gives two fucks about it. So I guess they're good to go.

[Graf Zahl]

The composer may still try to get royalties from you.
For music you have to distinguish between two different types of copyright:

1. The rights of the composition itself.
2. The rights of the actual recording.

If you create a MIDI of a known song, the second one will belong to you, but the first one will still belong to the composer.

[joe-ilya]

I don't think it's "ill eagle" to use MIDIs which were composed of commercial release songs. Basically a MIDI is a polyphonic ringtone, and anybody is fully allowed to create and distribute such things. Most notably, if you use a copyrighted song on Youtube, it'll be muted or deleted alltogether. However if you use a MIDI of that song instead, nobody gives two fucks about it. So I guess they're good to go.

Wrong, most of the DWANGO OSTs I've uploaded to Youtube got copyrighted.

[Reactor]

I don't get it, it's usually Youtube who replaces the copyrighted song with a watered-down MIDI version...

[Trance]

....what? When have they ever done that?

[Reactor]

I've noticed this practice prior 2014. I was a big fan of a Hungarian vlog "Bad PC games series", one episode included "Popcorn" from Hot Butter. Alas, Youtube decided that 1 minute loop was too much for fair use, and replaced it with a watered down MIDI version. I can show you.

[leileilol]

Youtube does not do this. What Youtube does is offer a choice to live with the ContentID match (where the rights owners get ad money) or a choice to modulate the song out (which isn't perfect). It doesn't replace songs with low quality midis.

then again I'd disregard any legal advice coming from someone who obfuscates their asset-flips....

[Reactor]

Ah, cynical as always. So then...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4QjA1wVCgM

From 3:47 to 5:05. That was defintively created out of a MIDI.

But if that's not enough proof for you, here is a little reading material:

"Exert from International MIDI Association Bulletin, Spring 1993
Copyright © 1993 Simon Higgs. All Rights Reserved.

"As the copyright law stands at the time I write this (and it will most likely be the same when you read this), the MIDI File falls fairly and squarely between the cracks in the law, and is not subject to the protection that the existing copyright law demands. There are essentially three conditions to determine whether the subject matter is copyrightable: 1) it must be a work of authorship; 2) it must be original; and 3) it must be fixed in a tangible medium of expression. Don't get me wrong, the musical work embodied in the MIDI File enjoys full protection of the copyright law. However, the shell (for lack of a better phrase) - that is the MIDI File that contains the work, is not recognized as a fixed form, and therefore cannot be registered by the US Copyright Office."

As for the assets, it's an entirely different type of subject. Don't start a war which has ended years ago.

[wildweasel]

The issue isn't that it's a MIDI (that's obvious), but that it doesn't happen automatically. The author of this video did the replacement by themselves.

[Reactor]

I swear to God, he didn't. I can show you the original video, which has the Hot Butter version. However, when he uploaded the very same video to Youtube, the song got replaced with this MIDI. Even the time period is the same:

http://indavideo.hu/video/Rossz_PC_jate ... ower_Surge

There is another video which has the very same phenomenon, this time with the song "Jump around" from House of Pain. The Youtube one has a MIDI, the Indavideo has the MP3. This gives me the impression that MIDIs are fine to go. Of course, if I'm wrong, then I apologize.
AFAIK the non-commercial versions of a song can be used in a Youtube video - MOD, XM, SPC, SID - and other obscure formats, as long as none of these tracks are under copyright or sold by their creator for monies (for instance, the Shovel Knight soundtrack: you can NOT use it or distribute the original 8-bit songs, but you CAN use their fanmade remixes).

[Nevander]

All these rules of what you can and can't use are stupid. I feel like (for YouTube at least) that you should be able to use whatever as long as you aren't monetizing your videos.

[Graf Zahl]

The copyright holders may disagree with that and are legally in the right to pursue their interests. Youtube (i.e. Google) is forced to comply with existing laws here.
The bottom line is: You cannot use others' legal property without their consent, monetization or not.