AvP 2.0 - JDREDALERT's Edition WIP Is Out For Testing !!

[Endless123]

I think the ricochet sounds for bullets should really be turned down as they tend to overpower the gun sounds.

Noted, consider it done

[Nocturned85]

Yeah agree it's all about preferences.

I'll have to ask jd what he thinks about this. Same for the shotgun idea. Since this build is almost entirely made by jdredalert(he did ALL the new sprites and animations and added music tracks and more - i only reworked the HUD, added a few things to the predator gameplay like the honor and prestige system for weapon upgrade and the trophy system - everything else is jd's work)

As for the extra handgun there shouldn't be a problem because both jd and i have plenty of sprites for handguns from older builds.

In short all depends on jd and if he wants to add to his to-do list. There is also the question that either the players want this mod quickly or they are willing to wait longer delays to have more stuff than it was previously planned. I think there is a middle ground that could be achieved.

I might sound a bit dismissive but i can assure you that your suggestions are taken seriously and really matter. Thanks again for your comment

I'm just happy for the consideration. If it doesn't happen, oh well. No biggie.

[Valherran]

SSG - If yo want a real boomstick this can be arranged but don't complain about the sound being too loud

Don't need to go overboard.

Something like Quake 2's SSG would fit fine.

Smartgun - Damage-wise i think it's ok because it's supposed to be the go-to gun to kill strong enemies that's why weak enemies are killed quickly with it. However i'll see how far i can lower the damage while retaining the "strong enemies killer" role of this weapon - you don't want to use a whole 300 rounds clip to kill a predator or a predalien are you?

The big guys should be taking up to 200 rounds to kill, cus at that point you're supposed to nail them with explosives when able.

Flamethrower - About the "pain chance" ... if you were hit by the flames of this weapon would you have some pain? I bet you will We could remove the pain chance or lower it but will it be realistic to burn enemies with this weapon if some enemies don't react to the pain of the flames?

Xenomorphs have a very high pain tolerance, flamethrowers do not stop them, not even the Runners. That's why they often just walk into incoming fire like a zombie or machine horde and run everything over with brute force. Same with the Combat Synths, they also do not feel pain, only detect it. I did notice the aliens running around on fire aimlessly, that shouldn't happen either.

[Endless123]

Xenomorphs have a very high pain tolerance, flamethrowers do not stop them, not even the Runners. That's why they often just walk into incoming fire like a zombie or machine horde and run everything over with brute force. Same with the Combat Synths, they also do not feel pain, only detect it. I did notice the aliens running around on fire aimlessly, that shouldn't happen either.

I agree that they shouldn't be completely stopped by this weapon but don't you forget a little detail? They are vulnerable to fire and yes when they catch fire they usually try to explode nearby someone. Ever played AvP 2010? That's what happens when you use the flamethrower on aliens in that game, some of them catch fire and when they do they are trying to get as close to the player as possible before they explode. And admit it, it's hilarious to see those aliens running around in fire It could be less funny if jd and i decide to make the aliens catching fire chase the player instead of running around aimlessly. It could result in some frustrating deaths

Anyways i will try to find the middle ground to minimize the pain lock, that's all i can promise you.

[Valherran]

I agree that they shouldn't be completely stopped by this weapon but don't you forget a little detail? They are vulnerable to fire and yes when they catch fire they usually try to explode nearby someone. Ever played AvP 2010? That's what happens when you use the flamethrower on aliens in that game, some of them catch fire and when they do they are trying to get as close to the player as possible before they explode. And admit it, it's hilarious to see those aliens running around in fire It could be less funny if jd and i decide to make the aliens catching fire chase the player instead of running around aimlessly. It could result in some frustrating deaths

Actually that feature dates back to the first game, AvP Gold. While it is funny to see, it makes it easy when it happens to a whole group at once, and that happens often. You could make that as a chanced death state instead where instead of trying to suicide on you, they burned to the point of not being able to control themselves and wander aimlessly.

EDIT: I downloaded that balance patch you put out and can't get it to run, it tells me no players classes are defined.

[Endless123]

EDIT: I downloaded that balance patch you put out and can't get it to run, it tells me no players classes are defined.

You must load the patch after the main file. I suggest you use ZDoom Launcher, it's much easier to launch the patch with it. If you are using it just enter the following line to launch the mod and the patch to work :

-file AvP20_Final_WIP.pk3 avp2p1.pk3

If you try to do it with the "drag and drop" method on the gzdoom.exe the patch will not work. Same if you load the patch first. In the line above the patch is placed second and GZDoom execute it after the mod and the data in the patch have priority over the mod data. That's why the patch works that way. If you reverse the order and place the patch before the mod then the mod data will be prioritized over the patch and it will not work.

[Valherran]

Oh whoops, I didn't see that part on the link post. I should have read it again when I came back to it.

[jdredalert]

Wow, that's a lot of replies! I'll try to address them all without building a unnecessarily giant wall of text:

1 - About the shotgun being weak: It is weak indeed, but there's a reason why. In early stages of development, we decided to balance the game towards Doom2 original maps. We knew that it would be impossible to balance it to every map pack available, so after we talk, i convinced Endless that taking the "original maps balance" route was the way to go. And one thing about Doom 2 maps that seems to be an universal complain since ever is that they have a lot of shotgun ammo, more than any other weapon. I noticed that since the shotgun ammo was so abundant and the shotgun could be obtained in the very first map, you had a very strong weapon that could 1 hit kill most of the regular enemies for all the game that made all the other guns pretty optional - at least for killing low-to-mid tier enemies. With SSG things got really worse because iirc, SSG in AvP pre-2.0 was almost three times stronger than regular shotty. So i really nerfed them both with extreme prejudice. Judging by the feedback, SSG balance was spot on, but you guys think that shotty is underpowered. Now, i haven't tested the balance patch Endless made because of my short free-time these days so i don't know if the shotgun was made stronger already, but i can say this: if you guys really want it stronger it could be done. It would surely make things a lot easier in some maps, but if that's a good or a bad thing is a matter of taste (and there's always the higher difficulties for those like me who seeks a harder game).

2 - @Nocturned85 and multiple weapons suggestion - First of all, welcome to the AvP thread! Never saw you here before, so make yourself at home. I'm glad you're enjoying the game and giving suggestions and I really liked your review on weapons. Now, about multiple shotguns/pistols, etc: while did something similar way back when i was helping Kontra Kommando in his Aliens Ultimate TC mod (you should take a look at that one too), i wanted to make things here more simply. Too many similar weapons can be redundant and i was trying to avoid that (and Gearbox's Aliens: Colonial Marines can be a prime example of too many weapons doing the exact same thing), because our Marine arsenal is very extense, ranging from pistols to Sniper Rifles and miniguns. Still, some weapons still clearly replaces old ones (like SSG and Magnum taking the role of the shotgun and .45 pistol), so i don't think i'll add more guns into the rooster of the main mod. However, there are always alternate routes one could take to add extra stuff, like optional weapon packs (should i call it a DLC? Nah ). I do have a VP70 sprite rip and some others on my personal archives that are begging to be used, so i think i could work on a separate extra weapons pack later - ducted tape stuff probably included

[SoundOfDarkness]

How about using the textures and monster sprites from Kontra Kommando's Alien Trilogy? Or adding a more simple toned down version of your Predator to his mod? Of course if it's possible at all.

[jdredalert]

Nah, that would make both mods looks way too similar - again. One of my early points to Endless on "why we need a 2.0 version" more than an year ago was to make it more distinctive from Kontra Kommando's works. I really love Alien Trilogy textures though.

[Valherran]

How about using the textures and monster sprites from Kontra Kommando's Alien Trilogy? Or adding a more simple toned down version of your Predator to his mod? Of course if it's possible at all.

Kontra Kommando aims his MOD to be as accurate to the lore and movies as possible while trying to accommodate Doom's gameplay style to a certain extent while making it an RNG survival game at the same time. So far he has done a pretty good job of that, his last BETA was good but just needed some major tweaks and balancing done.

Now unlike KK's MOD, this MOD here aims to accommodate all of Doom's gameplay style while at the same time implementing the AvP theme into it as well as trying to be accurate to lore to a certain extent.

[Endless123]

Wow, that's a lot of replies! I'll try to address them all without building a unnecessarily giant wall of text:

1 - About the shotgun being weak: It is weak indeed, but there's a reason why. In early stages of development, we decided to balance the game towards Doom2 original maps. We knew that it would be impossible to balance it to every map pack available, so after we talk, i convinced Endless that taking the "original maps balance" route was the way to go. And one thing about Doom 2 maps that seems to be an universal complain since ever is that they have a lot of shotgun ammo, more than any other weapon. I noticed that since the shotgun ammo was so abundant and the shotgun could be obtained in the very first map, you had a very strong weapon that could 1 hit kill most of the regular enemies for all the game that made all the other guns pretty optional - at least for killing low-to-mid tier enemies. With SSG things got really worse because iirc, SSG in AvP pre-2.0 was almost three times stronger than regular shotty. So i really nerfed them both with extreme prejudice. Judging by the feedback, SSG balance was spot on, but you guys think that shotty is underpowered. Now, i haven't tested the balance patch Endless made because of my short free-time these days so i don't know if the shotgun was made stronger already, but i can say this: if you guys really want it stronger it could be done. It would surely make things a lot easier in some maps, but if that's a good or a bad thing is a matter of taste (and there's always the higher difficulties for those like me who seeks a harder game).

2 - @Nocturned85 and multiple weapons suggestion - First of all, welcome to the AvP thread! Never saw you here before, so make yourself at home. I'm glad you're enjoying the game and giving suggestions and I really liked your review on weapons. Now, about multiple shotguns/pistols, etc: while did something similar way back when i was helping Kontra Kommando in his Aliens Ultimate TC mod (you should take a look at that one too), i wanted to make things here more simply. Too many similar weapons can be redundant and i was trying to avoid that (and Gearbox's Aliens: Colonial Marines can be a prime example of too many weapons doing the exact same thing), because our Marine arsenal is very extense, ranging from pistols to Sniper Rifles and miniguns. Still, some weapons still clearly replaces old ones (like SSG and Magnum taking the role of the shotgun and .45 pistol), so i don't think i'll add more guns into the rooster of the main mod. However, there are always alternate routes one could take to add extra stuff, like optional weapon packs (should i call it a DLC? Nah ). I do have a VP70 sprite rip and some others on my personal archives that are begging to be used, so i think i could work on a separate extra weapons pack later - ducted tape stuff probably included

I did buff the shotgun in the patch but i did something else too. As you could read in the previous replies some complained about some weapons being able to stun-lock the xenos, i made a slight modifications on all the xenos so now they don't stun-lock, they react to hits then continue to move toward the player. It's not perfectly fluid tho. The only other option would be to remove the pain state completely and it could make the mod unplayable on way too many maps.

In the patch i also altered the damage formula for the weapons using the "tracer" because some complained the pulse rifle and the smartgun were too strong I also added an "Ultimate" difficulty for those still thinking the mod is way too easy - not sure if i will add it to the final release because for now it's just a test difficulty but if the players enjoy it then it will be added. All the weapons of the Predator have been modified damage-wise due to the new formula i mentioned in a previous post. The Predator class is still really strong but will not be unstoppable after a few maps. The xp needed to gain a honor level is now 999 instead of 500 and all the enemies have the xp they give lowered a bit.

I agree with you about the extra weapons, a pack of alternative weapons for the Marine class could be released as an add-on later once the main mod is complete. Maybe even some extra exotic weapons for the Predator class too, as i recall you had some really cool weapons in your own predator mod like the sticky mine and the net gun But lets focus on finishing the mod first

[Valherran]

I did buff the shotgun in the patch but i did something else too. As you could read in the previous replies some complained about some weapons being able to stun-lock the xenos, i made a slight modifications on all the xenos so now they don't stun-lock, they react to hits then continue to move toward the player. It's not perfectly fluid tho. The only other option would be to remove the pain state completely and it could make the mod unplayable on way too many maps.

At first glance it seems to work, more testing is needed once everything else is looked at.

In the patch i also altered the damage formula for the weapons using the "tracer" because some complained the pulse rifle and the smartgun were too strong

And with this change, I think the bullet weapons are perfect now.

The Seismic Charges bounce problem Valherran mentioned for the secondary attack has been fixed. All the damage of the explosives(rocket, pulse grenade and seismic charges) has been reduced a bit and the radius also has been reduced.

I think you may have over-nerfed the damage and radius of these. I shot a pulse grenade at the floor between the 2 humans at Entryway and they survived. That shouldn't even be possible . I shot at the ground looking for the distance in which I should be hurting myself and I took damage at the 5 feet mark and it was very little. Direct hits with any of the explosives only seem to work, but the crowd control is now non-existent which pretty much eliminates it's purpose of existing. If these weapon are running on a conjoined formula, raise the current effectiveness of them all by 25%.

[Endless123]

Yeah i might have nerfed the explosive a bit too much

I'll test new values for both the damage and the radius. And no they aren't on the same damage formula. BTW have you test the Predator class with the patch? i'd like to have your impressions about the changes i made.

Thanks again for your comment

[Nocturned85]

Wow, that's a lot of replies! I'll try to address them all without building a unnecessarily giant wall of text:


2 - @Nocturned85 and multiple weapons suggestion - First of all, welcome to the AvP thread! Never saw you here before, so make yourself at home. I'm glad you're enjoying the game and giving suggestions and I really liked your review on weapons. Now, about multiple shotguns/pistols, etc: while did something similar way back when i was helping Kontra Kommando in his Aliens Ultimate TC mod (you should take a look at that one too), i wanted to make things here more simply. Too many similar weapons can be redundant and i was trying to avoid that (and Gearbox's Aliens: Colonial Marines can be a prime example of too many weapons doing the exact same thing), because our Marine arsenal is very extense, ranging from pistols to Sniper Rifles and miniguns. Still, some weapons still clearly replaces old ones (like SSG and Magnum taking the role of the shotgun and .45 pistol), so i don't think i'll add more guns into the rooster of the main mod. However, there are always alternate routes one could take to add extra stuff, like optional weapon packs (should i call it a DLC? Nah ). I do have a VP70 sprite rip and some others on my personal archives that are begging to be used, so i think i could work on a separate extra weapons pack later - ducted tape stuff probably included

Seems fair to me.

I joined up awhile ago but never really posted. Kind of just lurked around.