What actual benefits will POLYMOST bring?

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:48 pm

I wouldn't need anything but voxels. Polymost?, nah (unless it's completely necessary in order to enable voxel support), MD2's?, no fucking way, ZdoomGL is already there. Old, raw, primitive and nice looking volume pixels are my shit

Siggi · Post by **Siggi** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:29 pm

Doom wrote:...my shit

I agreed with most of that, except the last part.
I don't think we need your shit ZDoom...

The less shit there is in ZDoom the happier I'll be, the only place I want to find shit is in the bugs forum,, and even better in the closed bugs forum with [fixed] written next to it.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:09 pm

Whatever

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:13 pm

Doom succeeds it

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:32 pm

I sincerely hope that Randy never adds voxel support. That would kill any potential future migration to a hardware accelerated engine.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:44 pm

*cough* ZdoomGL *cough*

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:14 pm

Not *cough*.

How are you supposed to play levels with voxels in it? Every attempt to do it either resulted in total ugliness or massive slowdown.

I'd rather see some decent model support instead of some voxel crap.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:52 pm

Can you show me a polymost enhanced port runing fast in software mode?. Either way, voxel models can be optimized by removing the internal non-visible trash and unless you plan to map an entire level made of them or cheat and get in the middle of a concurred cyberdemon meeting, the slowdown should be unnoticeable.

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:21 pm

opinions..

to me there's something quite apart from the logic of "which is better" that makes voxel models look cooler than traditional polygon models, in some situations. i'm not talking about complex humanoid models, but models like in Blood and SW. i don't know what it is exactly, but even though i have quite a logical mind, i have learned that sometimes it is better to just say "you know what? i like it this way" instead of beating my brain in trying to figure out why I could possibly like it that way.

so, i tend to like voxel weapons/items/objects better than polygon ones for doom and build. some people prefer that. others don't. it's really better that way, otherwise us forumers wouldn't have shit to argue about, and then life would be dull

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Sun Feb 27, 2005 8:37 pm

Also, voxels would push the architecture detail to it's very limits not to mention faked (but quite functional) 3dfloors.

Post by **randi** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 2:31 am

Doom wrote:Can you show me a polymost enhanced port runing fast in software mode?

JFDuke seems to run quite well in 8-bit polymost mode to me. Of course, I doubt very many people actually use polymost without also using hardware acceleration.

Doom wrote:Also, voxels would push the architecture detail to it's very limits

No they wouldn't. Hardware-accelerated static meshes would do a much better job of pushing the detail. If you really wanted voxels so much, you could even make a model that looks like it's made out of voxels.

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:04 am

randy wrote:JFDuke seems to run quite well in 8-bit polymost mode to me

A few days ago I mentioned this port stating it was slow on polymost, but nobody seemed to care, thanks for airing it again. However, if I can juice out 28fps with my 1.8ghz, I'll feel lucky. Some wouldn't mind but once you get used to higher framerates, you can't go back (although I ignore if you could make it optional).

Of course, I doubt very many people actually use polymost without also using hardware acceleration

Exactly my point.

No they wouldn't. Hardware-accelerated static meshes would do a much better job of pushing the detail. If you really wanted voxels so much, you could even make a model that looks like it's made out of voxels.

Not at all. The flexibility of the voxels can be fairly awesome. Ever heard of Voxlap?, it's not that you'd be turning Zdoom into that but you can have a taste of what can be done with them and what that means in terms of architecture and "dynamic world destruction" (as it's called at the official site). A MD2 with voxel-look?, impossible at short/medium ranges.

Post by **Graf Zahl** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:55 am

Stop living in the past and see the future!

Voxels are an obsolete technology because there is almost no way to hardware-accelerate them with modern graphics card. Why should we even bother with microblocks when building simple models will achieve much better results in nearly all cases? The only things I can see where voxels might be good for are small rectangular objects. But to do those as models is infinitely simpler.

When it comes to sphere-like surfaces voxels suck so massively that they aren't even worth bothering anymore. The relation between the effort to create voxel objects and their use is just too bad. Plus, I don't need Lego in Doom!

Doom · Post by **Doom** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:03 am

I'm not against MD2's, I'm against MD2's in Zdoom, it would be a waste of time that could be invested in something far more productive. We have ZdoomGL, let it take care of your model needs.

Post by **NiGHTMARE** » Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:09 am

Why do you keep banging on about MD2s? They're almost as obsolete as voxels. There are countless superior model formats in existence, some of which not only allow for better looking models, but are more optimized as well.