D4T (New v2.5 Trailer pg 47)

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Hey what a great time to again advertise the d4t discord, cause there an addon that does just that pinned in the addon section

I would suggest uploading it on ModDB too.

For Hard:Max I've only cleared E1 so far, but it starts to go smoother once you realize that you can't play it exactly like OG Ultraviolence. Just like new Doom, you have to keep moving. Even if everything is a projectile now, they move fast; if you're not already moving by the time that shotgun guy starts firing, you're probably gonna get hit. Pick a direction and follow through.

I think the problem here is that none of the levels have been designed with the mod in mind. Maps like Doom II's MAP02: Underhalls can be particularly difficult because the level design consists of mostly tight corridors and leaves little to no room to dodge, so running around Benny Hill-style is generally out of question. If anything, so far I have been more successful playing it extra careful by abusing cover and grenades... but that just feels wrong somehow.

[isaacpop23]

Aaanyway, out of curiosity, has anyone managed to beat any of the vanilla mapsets on a harder setting than Normal: Max Monsters?
If so, any suggestions on how to do it? I tried playing Doom II on Hard: Max Monsters and dang, is it hard!

When I saw this, I figured it was only the stock Doom II maps, it couldn't be that hard right? I died fairly quickly due to deciding to screw around a bit. But once I started taking it seriously, I started doing fairly well. The only times I've had trouble with are in areas that are filled to the brim with monsters, examples being the drop down area of Underhalls, and the final room in The Crusher. Though the game has been nice with giving me the mods I like, it didn't take long for me to get the Shotgun Triple Burst, the HAR Scope, and the Plasma Heat Blast!

As for advice, all I really got is focus more on dodging than hitting them, it's not hard to go from 100/100 to dead. Also ammo seems to be plentiful, use it freely.

[Twitchy2019]

I personally have never played on harder difficulties, but I can suggest 2 hacks for you. First, the health system was designed so that you take more damage because zombies and imps are essentially walking medkits
If you take out all but one or two and then use the pistol, VIOLA! They will bear the gift of health upon a finisher.

The second hack is a little harder but follows the same premise. Out of common ammo? Use chainsaw on zombies and imps. The game gets more bearable if one does this.

Now another suggestion is taking out the multiplayer weapons as maps were designed with certain weapon pickups in mind. Weapon hunting becomes less frustrating when one takes these out.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

I know of these two tactics already, but again, since you can go from being at max health and armour to being dead in a couple of seconds, it ultimately does not matter whether you do it or not.

[Gollgagh]

"hack"

[DoomKrakken]

I personally have never played on harder difficulties, but I can suggest 2 hacks for you. First, the health system was designed so that you take more damage because zombies and imps are essentially walking medkits
If you take out all but one or two and then use the pistol, VIOLA! They will bear the gift of health upon a finisher.

First off, WHAT? How would one code that in?

Second off... WHY? That'll just make the game much harder. They all will drop health upon glory kill.

The second hack is a little harder but follows the same premise. Out of common ammo? Use chainsaw on zombies and imps. The game gets more bearable if one does this.

That's how it's always been done. How is this a hack?

Now another suggestion is taking out the multiplayer weapons as maps were designed with certain weapon pickups in mind. Weapon hunting becomes less frustrating when one takes these out.

Nice idea for an addon, but otherwise not good for integration into D4T itself.

Aaanyway, out of curiosity, has anyone managed to beat any of the vanilla mapsets on a harder setting than Normal: Max Monsters?
If so, any suggestions on how to do it? I tried playing Doom II on Hard: Max Monsters and dang, is it hard!

I'd want to take that challenge... but I'd want to use my version which has ledge catching. But then I doubt that'll mean I did the challenge correctly...

[TechnoDoomed1]

Also I had a random map completion bonus upgrade...my health increased to 120 and in next level said my max health is 110...is this intentional?

I finally got a way to reproduce this bug. It seems to ALWAYS happen when you die and resurrect yourself from the command console. Your max health is increased above the supposed max you were given by the completionist bonus.

If you die with 110 max health, you resurrect with 120 max health. Likewise if you die with 120 max, then you resurrect at 140 max, etc.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Nice idea for an addon, but otherwise not good for integration into D4T itself.

D4Tv2SPWeaponsOnly seems to work well enough, but it has not been updated following D4T 2.0.1 release and MP weapons still drop.

[Twitchy2019]

I personally have never played on harder difficulties, but I can suggest 2 hacks for you. First, the health system was designed so that you take more damage because zombies and imps are essentially walking medkits
If you take out all but one or two and then use the pistol, VIOLA! They will bear the gift of health upon a finisher.

First off, WHAT? How would one code that in?

Second off... WHY? That'll just make the game much harder. They all will drop health upon glory kill.

The second hack is a little harder but follows the same premise. Out of common ammo? Use chainsaw on zombies and imps. The game gets more bearable if one does this.

That's how it's always been done. How is this a hack?

Now another suggestion is taking out the multiplayer weapons as maps were designed with certain weapon pickups in mind. Weapon hunting becomes less frustrating when one takes these out.

Nice idea for an addon, but otherwise not good for integration into D4T itself.

Aaanyway, out of curiosity, has anyone managed to beat any of the vanilla mapsets on a harder setting than Normal: Max Monsters?
If so, any suggestions on how to do it? I tried playing Doom II on Hard: Max Monsters and dang, is it hard!

I'd want to take that challenge... but I'd want to use my version which has ledge catching. But then I doubt that'll mean I did the challenge correctly...

Mr. Kraken, did you really think I was being literal in reporting those as legitimate code changes with regards to hacks? I was meaning in the context of "little things to make life easier" hacks. The walking medkit is a metaphor, albeit its borderline going on truth (because their death spews out medkits), as these guys are so weak they might as well be walking "Break Glass in Case of Emergency" healthkits.

When I meant "take them out" I was talking in the context of a group of those bastards. You CAN get health from any monster, but a group of these are essentially no resistance, so taking out (killing them) all but a few ensures a player has an essential "Get out of jail free card" in the case of low health.

[DBThanatos]

Aaanyway, out of curiosity, has anyone managed to beat any of the vanilla mapsets on a harder setting than Normal: Max Monsters?

If so, any suggestions on how to do it? I tried playing Doom II on Hard: Max Monsters and dang, is it hard!

The answer is: Hide!

Playing in harder difficulties definitely "slows" the game down, since you cant just be running around carelessly. But indeed, the best way to deal with it, is to know the maps, get completionists (for extra health), take cover and potshots, and always utilize monsters for health with GK, but only when they're basically alone. After a glory kill you are invulnerable for a very short time to protect you from incoming projectiles, but this isnt reliable enough to go bruce lee against a ton of monsters

This is a video of me playing in the hardest skill in Doom2. In normal skill, in 20 min i usually finish the first 8 levels. You'll see here how I was much slower. (although this is with previous version of D4T)


Now I wanna try this again with 2.0.1 >:D

[JohnnyTheWolf]

I see. Seems rather counterintuitive to me, especially with that whole Doomslayer speech at the beginning, but if that is the only way to make it out alive, then I shall follow your advice.

[DBThanatos]

I see. Seems rather counterintuitive to me, especially with that whole Doomslayer speech at the beginning, but if that is the only way to make it out alive, then I shall follow your advice.

Well, the thing to consider is that you cant have a harder difficulty and expect it to play the same way. Some people really like the challenge of fast and twitchy gameplay, which is all the 3 normal skills. Some people like the more "holy shit im gonna die any moment now" gameplay, and that's the hard and deathbound skills; which are sort of analog to Doom4's nightmare skills where you die incredibly easily. In D4 you have tons of space to maneuver, and that's how you survive those skills there, but here, without d4t dedicated maps, all I can bring is more danger to the table and let people decide if they want to play those insane skills.

"Normal: Max" = Doom2's ultra violence. Anything beyond that, is gonna affect gameplay massively.

I myself, play "norma max" always, because that's what the balance was made for. I do not play the harder skills unless I only want to see how far i can make it. If you want to play harder skills, you have to agree to the fact that it's gonna play differently.

[Twitchy2019]

Hey, can anyone create a weapon seen but not used in Doom 4? The Crucible Sword?

[DoomKrakken]

That should go to the resource request thread.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

Well, the thing to consider is that you cant have a harder difficulty and expect it to play the same way. Some people really like the challenge of fast and twitchy gameplay, which is all the 3 normal skills. Some people like the more "holy shit im gonna die any moment now" gameplay, and that's the hard and deathbound skills; which are sort of analog to Doom4's nightmare skills where you die incredibly easily. In D4 you have tons of space to maneuver, and that's how you survive those skills there, but here, without d4t dedicated maps, all I can bring is more danger to the table and let people decide if they want to play those insane skills.

Oh, I am not blaming you for trying to reproduce Doom 2016's gameplay as faithfully as possible. If anything, that games suffers from what I would call the Sonic the Hedgehog paradox: on one hand, it encourages you to play recklessly by portraying the main character as an unstoppable carefree badass, but on other hand, it actively and often severely punishes you for doing so.

Like, whenever I run out of armour, I cannot help but be reminded of that log in Doom 2016 that describes the Praetor Suit as "almost impervious to any damage"...