320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

ZDoom LE, Pentium 133's, Windows 98, and DOS 3.1 all go here! A bygone era, of particular interest to some folks.

Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby drfrag » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:15 am

@invictius: so the engine runs and on exit you get an error message like 'could not open the file zdoom-<some junk here>.ini? Is that your problem? My junk test machines are not in very good shape.
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby invictius » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:15 am

drfrag wrote:@invictius: so the engine runs and on exit you get an error message like 'could not open the file zdoom-<some junk here>.ini? Is that your problem? My junk test machines are not in very good shape.


I don't seem to be able to replicate the error now. Other weird things were happening, such as it crashing on startup if I ran it a second time without restarting windows... the system is also doing some weird stuff such as not getting past the bios unless I switch it off and back on. The config file it's writing to is made up of garbage characters though.

Btw, what's the difference between CE and the legacy edition?
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby drfrag » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:41 am

Then it's not a bug but a problem with your machine. Could be faulty ram or psu or mobo.
Anyway could you try the attached exe? What's the performance @320x200? ZDoom CL is an old ZDoom version mainly for 486 and pentiums.

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g8 ... cdb55c76f2

Edit: are you really running win95? The link will expire in one day.
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby koverhbarc » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:37 am

Graf Zahl wrote:The reason for that was that 320x240 required an undocumented hack mode that couldn't be guaranteed to exist on all hardware.

Not really. Doom already used a 'hacked' mode, and the way to modify it to 320x240 had already been made publicly available, and why it necessarily worked on all VGAs was also known - to the timing hardware of the chip, and of course to the monitor, it was the same as a 640x480 mode which was BIOS standard. I think merely that 320x200 had always been _the_ resolution for DOS games was enough to continue it, and only with the start of true-3D engines did non-square pixels become a programming problem. But as far as I know there's never been an official answer to this question, so I can't be certain.
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby invictius » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:00 am

drfrag wrote:Then it's not a bug but a problem with your machine. Could be faulty ram or psu or mobo.
Anyway could you try the attached exe? What's the performance @320x200? ZDoom CL is an old ZDoom version mainly for 486 and pentiums.

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g8 ... cdb55c76f2

Edit: are you really running win95? The link will expire in one day.


I am indeed running win95. Either osr2 or 2.5. With this timedemo, doom2 map 1: [url]]http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=gd5b64d97022d5c7e99996668047cb665ea79144ea[/url]

39.5fps. Pentium 133, 48mb ram, onboard video.

486-100, 24mb ram, onboard video gets 11.5fps.
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby drfrag » Thu Jun 01, 2017 1:20 pm

I already tested win95c and ran fine, i've discarded the changes. It's really slow on that 486, probably fmod is holding it back.
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby leileilol » Thu Jun 01, 2017 3:42 pm

1987's new VGA standard only allowed it in doublescan (effectively 640x400).

Around 2004-2006 is when it started slipping out of many video mode lists on drivers. The newest card I could initialize 320x200 on with Engoo was an ATI R200-based chip

There's also many laptop video chipsets that don't provide modes <640x480 in the 90s as wel (but could display VGA fine anyhow under dos)l. Trident comes to mind
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby koverhbarc » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:12 pm

drfrag wrote:I already tested win95c and ran fine, i've discarded the changes. It's really slow on that 486, probably fmod is holding it back.

Test with -nosound to check that; that's what I do all the time. Seriously is there any reason to hold on to FMod when OpenAL (which runs on all machines) is now available to replace it?
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Re: 320x200 suppot, when was it dropped on video cards?

Postby drfrag » Fri Jun 02, 2017 6:45 am

As i mentioned several times openal is actually clearly faster than fmod on very old machines, on a pentium ii there's not much of a difference. But the old openal backend i'm using have some limitations (that one was modified to be compatible with win95), it's fine for old machines though.

@leileilol: did you ever manage to run GZDoom @320x240 in hardware mode on 9x with old cards? I wonder how it would look. According to Graf it could use any resolution reported by the driver and i think the quake2 engine games supported that resolution natively if i'm not wrong (i know you're developing that quake 3 version).
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