[Fixed] Old bugs not yet fixed

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Old bugs not yet fixed

Postby Hyena » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:14 pm

1. Some monsters can see through walls.

This is most obvious in levels with a boss (cyberdemon, boss shooter, etc.) where you can hear their sounds anywhere in the level.
This happened in earlier betas, and it still is happening in .50. It's happened in many different levels.

2. The old text bug; Ys are replaced with Is in wads where font graphics are changed.

This was fixed in an earlier version, but it's come back somehow.
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Postby randi » Tue Oct 28, 2003 4:51 pm

1. I need specifics. Not just "many different levels."

2. Remove the erroneous STCFN121 from the offending wads. It's supposed to be a lowercase 'y', but for whatever reason doom(2).wad contains a graphic by this name with an uppercase 'I'. I can automatically avoid loading this for the IWAD but not for user wads, because it might be a valid character.
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Postby Hyena » Wed Oct 29, 2003 12:34 am

Well, I don't know what the specifics are. It's almost random.
I only notice it in levels with Cyberdemons or other bosses you can hear from far away, but I'm sure it happens all the time with most levels I play. It does happen very frequently.

I'll see if I can narrow it down, but in any case the monsters are seeing me through many 1-sided walls, and in some cases entirely on the other side of the map.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:25 am

Hyena wrote:Well, I don't know what the specifics are. It's almost random.
I only notice it in levels with Cyberdemons or other bosses you can hear from far away, but I'm sure it happens all the time with most levels I play. It does happen very frequently.

I'll see if I can narrow it down, but in any case the monsters are seeing me through many 1-sided walls, and in some cases entirely on the other side of the map.


Are you sure the monsters can actually see you or is it also possible that they merely hear you. Sound does travel throughout the entire level until it gets blocked by a closed door or something similar.

An interesting example for this is in Map07 of Nimrod (ok, its for Legacy but it's still good). There is a Spiderdemon in this map but in an area that can be accessed only after a few doors have been opened. However, if you make a noise in the starting room (i.e shoot) it will wake up nevertheless. Can it be something like this what you experiencing?

If monsters can actually see you they will occasionally attack so you might want to type IDDT twice and check whether they are shooting any projectiles.
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Postby Nanami » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:30 am

No, for example there's a level in Mock2 where it's one GIANT twisting winding room, with lots and lots of Cyberdemons outside that room. As you progress through the tunnel, 1-2 of the Cyberdemons may wake up even though they shouldn't.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 2:58 am

This can be errors in the blockmap. Since ZDoom uses the blockmap for visibility calculations small errors in it may create 'windows' in the walls where monsters could look through. I have seen countless maps with small problems in this area. In more than 99% of all cases they will go unnoticed, however, because there are very few effects that show them off.
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Postby Hirogen2 » Wed Oct 29, 2003 10:59 am

What about the REJECT table (which is zero as per ZDBSP's -r option)? AFAIK it enables/disables "monster sees/hears(?) player if in sector..." something?
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Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:09 am

Reject has nothing to do with this. Reject is used only to determine non-visibility. If this can't be determined a full visibility check is performed. Othewise empty rejects wouldn't work.
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Postby Nanami » Wed Oct 29, 2003 11:41 am

I figured it was something like that (especially in Mock2 where normal Doom limits are certainly exceeded... 600 cybs anyone?), but wasn't sure if it could be fixed.
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Postby Kate » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:35 pm

I noticed this in my TeLeFrAgGeD 1337-type map as well: The Icon of Sin demon spawners can see you no matter where in the map you are, as long as you're within what would be their line of sight, they'll always wake up regardless of whether you are in their actual LOS or not.
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Postby HotWax » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:02 pm

Destroyer wrote:I noticed this in my TeLeFrAgGeD 1337-type map as well: The Icon of Sin demon spawners can see you no matter where in the map you are, as long as you're within what would be their line of sight, they'll always wake up regardless of whether you are in their actual LOS or not.


Are you sure that's not by design? The cubes are set to go through walls, so maybe the spawner is set to see through walls as well.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:22 pm

No, the brain shooter uses the same A_Look function as all the other monsters. If it can look through walls there is most likely a blockmap problem. Try to rebuild it using different node builders and see what happens.
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Postby Nanami » Wed Oct 29, 2003 5:54 pm

HotWax wrote:Are you sure that's not by design? The cubes are set to go through walls, so maybe the spawner is set to see through walls as well.

I made a large level with five spawners in the exact same spot once. Sometimes, halfway through the level (not even anywhere near the room where the spawners are), one would wake up, but not the others.
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Postby Bio Hazard » Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:26 pm

Nanami wrote:600 cybs


then maybe massmouth 3 might come out sooner :D
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Postby Xaser » Thu Oct 30, 2003 5:48 pm

Bio Hazard wrote:
Nanami wrote:600 cybs


then maybe massmouth 3 might come out sooner :D


Heh. That would be awesome! I'd also look forward to void2.wad and Project X II (Heh, Just kidding there). :)
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