[Not a bug] Monster doesnot recognize invis player

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Monster doesnot recognize invis player

Postby Hirogen2 » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:53 am

For example, Arachnotrons in MAP07 do not start their walking etc. if you are invisble (and do not shoot of course).
Intention or bug?
http://linux01.org:2222/f/save3.zds
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Postby HotWax » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:11 am

I don't seem to have this "problem"
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Postby Hirogen2 » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:21 am

Do your arachnotrons "wake up" when they see you?
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Postby SargeBaldy » Fri Oct 03, 2003 2:33 am

i've noticed this with all monsters in 47i.
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Postby HotWax » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:15 am

Hirogen2 wrote:Do your arachnotrons "wake up" when they see you?


To test this, I warped to MAP07, grabbed an invis sphere, and mdk'd the 4 mancubii, and stood still. The arachs stayed dormant. The moment I started moving, though, some of them saw me and woke up.
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Postby Nanami » Fri Oct 03, 2003 9:54 am

I've noticed it in a lot of levels. Monsters have a harder time seeing you. Sometimes you can walk right past them, and sometimes they notice you and start chasing. I've walked past a room of revenants before.

I don't remember it acting like that in original Doom, but at least it makes the invisibility sphere more useful.
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Postby Enjay » Fri Oct 03, 2003 10:50 am

This is not how it acted in the original doom, but it is the way it has acted in Zdoom for ages (maybe 2 years or more).

I remember it being discussed on the old forum too, and people were generally in favour.

Personally I think it is fantastic. The old powerup was more of a liability than a help. Monsters still woke up and attacked as soon as you were in their LOS. All the powerup did was randomise the direction they fired a little. Handy for hitscan enemies, but more often than not I would end up dodging into an off-aim fireball.

With the Zdoom system, you can sneak into a room and get the jump on an enemy or 2 before they are ready to deal with you. Once you make a noise, or the enemies have been alerted to your presence by some other means, the powerup has the same effect as before. Not a huge difference in what it actually does for the duration of its effect, but a great improvement none the less IMO.
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Postby randi » Sat Oct 04, 2003 4:42 pm

I took the Heretic code and made it work in Doom, since I thought it made more sense that monsters shouldn't wake up right away the instant they see you when you are barely visible.
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Postby Xaser » Sun Oct 05, 2003 4:46 pm

randy wrote:I took the Heretic code and made it work in Doom, since I thought it made more sense that monsters shouldn't wake up right away the instant they see you when you are barely visible.


Cool. Now I wish that Doom's Invisibility sphere worked like Descent's, when you pick it up, no monsters can see you, but if you shoot, then the enemies would start shooting at the point you were when you last shot. Then again, that behavior made sense in Descent, where the enemies were just a bunch of robots, and It wouldn't really make sense for demons to be fooled by that behavior.
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Postby HotWax » Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:11 pm

Xaser wrote:
randy wrote:I took the Heretic code and made it work in Doom, since I thought it made more sense that monsters shouldn't wake up right away the instant they see you when you are barely visible.


Cool. Now I wish that Doom's Invisibility sphere worked like Descent's, when you pick it up, no monsters can see you, but if you shoot, then the enemies would start shooting at the point you were when you last shot. Then again, that behavior made sense in Descent, where the enemies were just a bunch of robots, and It wouldn't really make sense for demons to be fooled by that behavior.


It also wouldn't make sense because in Descent you were 100% invisible (IIRC) whereas in Doom you're only partially invisible.

IMHO, the best AI for this situation would be that enemies take a bit longer to notice you if they're not already seeking you (as it works now), but once you stop moving, they find it harder to see you and so don't fire as often, particularly if you're far away. The theory is you blend into the background...

[edit]Just thought of a way to easily accomplish this. One of the code pointers that affects enemy firing is the "refire" pointer. As I understand it, this automatically checks to see if the player is (still) in view. Presumably the same code is used before an enemy even starts firing. Somewhere buried deep in the code is a pivotal if statement that determines whether the enemy should fire (i.e. because the player is in view). If that statement could be randomized when the player has a invis sphere, based on the player's speed of movement versus the distance of the enemy from the player, then the enemies would fire less often and would sometimes stop firing if the player stopped moving. IMHO, this would make the sphere 10 times more useful than it already is.[/edit]
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Postby Hirogen2 » Mon Oct 06, 2003 5:58 am

What would be cool to make something that the player can be stealth, not just invisible (which, by literaric comparison, is the same).

EDIT: Indeed, "invisble" means: draw with "fuzz" (or translucency) and do monster not let recognize the player,
"stealth": draw nothing, monsters won't recognize it too, unless the player is visible, which only happens if -- quote -- firing or injured.
I know what you meant but I wanted to make it clear for the rest.
Last edited by Hirogen2 on Tue Oct 07, 2003 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby HotWax » Mon Oct 06, 2003 8:03 am

Hirogen2 wrote:What would be cool to make something that the player can be stealth, not just invisible (which, by literaric comparison, is the same).


Stealth seems to indicate that he is 100% invisible until firing or injured, as the stealth monsters work. Invisible would be 100% invisible all the time, which he's not. :P
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