[Closed] [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:54 pm

Indeed. It's the only one of the 10 sound fonts I have installed where this song sounds broken. I'm primarily using EAWPats which seems to work as intended, at least I haven't experienced anything like this with it.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby sinisterseed » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:48 am

Tried a few soundfonts as well, this time in 4.3.3, and they do seem to make quite a bit of a difference. I've compared the scc1t2, arachno version 1.0, and the fixed sc-55 soundfont by EmperorGrieferus.

MAP08 sounds correct with anything but gzdoom.sf2, but MAP30 is very picky, apart from Arachno pretty much all of them sound a bit broken to me. The instrument playing on the background - whatever it is supposed to be - is the one that seems to screw up the song so badly.

But how did this break so badly in the first place, if, according to Gez, GZDoom 3.1.0 is the last version where these songs aren't horribly fucked. That's a pretty old version.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:04 am

That points to something that happened when I rewrote Timidity++ from an external tool to an internal synth. Keep in mind that the original Timidity++ was one horribly fucked up mess of source code, I had to strip out lots and lots of code not related to MIDI synthesis that was scattered throughout the entire code base. Apparently something went wrong there.

Now the problem is that I have insufficient knowledge of how MIDI synthesis with sound fonts works, so I cannot set up the needed diagnostics that could show me where things go wrong. It's probably just a minor typo or such, but it needs to be found first.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Gez » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:43 am

The soundfont lead is interesting because that's something that did change (besides the code) between 3.1 and 3.3, since timidity configuration went from being an external configuration file (timidity.cfg) in the folder where the timidity_exe program is found, to being a soundfont named after the value of timidity_config found in GZDoom's soundfont folder. After copying my "Patch93_SC-55.sf2" to GZDoom's soundfont folder and changing timidity_config to "patch93_sc-55" instead of "gzdoom", Into the Beast's Belly started sounding right again.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby sinisterseed » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:17 am

Gez wrote:The soundfont lead is interesting because that's something that did change (besides the code) between 3.1 and 3.3, since timidity configuration went from being an external configuration file (timidity.cfg) in the folder where the timidity_exe program is found, to being a soundfont named after the value of timidity_config found in GZDoom's soundfont folder. After copying my "Patch93_SC-55.sf2" to GZDoom's soundfont folder and changing timidity_config to "patch93_sc-55" instead of "gzdoom", Into the Beast's Belly started sounding right again.

How does Grieferus' fixed version sound to you? - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1G53wKn ... yaKml/view

I'm curious to see whether it's just a matter of perception or it does indeed not sound quite right in 4.3.3 (and how it sounds in 3.1.0, for that matter) ? Out of all sf2 I've tried, I'm not confident about how this one sounds on MAP30.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:36 am

The way the sound font is defined is totally irrelevant. The internal code to handle the sound font should be mostly the same, and some of the needed adjustments probably create occasional problems - just not with the sound fonts and songs I used during testing.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Gez » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:08 am

Graf Zahl wrote:The way the sound font is defined is totally irrelevant.

Yes, but it meant that different versions of GZDoom were using different soundfonts during my tests.

So after editing my old timidity.exe's timidity.cfg to point to gzdoom.sf2 (I was using ct4mgm.sf2), and testing GZDoom 3.1.0, I got the horrible cacophony in TNT MAP30. IMO that confirms that the issue is entirely on the soundfont's side, and that the code is not guilty.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:34 am

... or the sound font contains something valid that Timidity++ does not like - after all it is not a faithful SF2 renderer, so these things can happen.
In any case, that's beyond my abilities to investigate and fix.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Gez » Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:58 am

And more importantly, it's not a regression -- if it's a bug, it's a bug that was always here, not one that was introduced by switching to OpenAL, or to internal TiMidity++, or to ZMusic.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Wohlstand » Fri Oct 16, 2020 4:12 pm

Gez wrote:libADL and libOPN work similarly (though I had to reduce the number of emulated ADL cores down to 4 or it went silent after a couple of seconds, maybe it's a performance issue with Nukey's core though)

Nuked OPL3 and Nuked OPN2 cores while very accurate, they require more power than usual. For old and slow computers it's suggested to use DosBox, MAME YM2612, MAME YM2608, Neko Project II KAI, PMDWin, and GENS. Keep the note that while Nuked OPL3 may work on some weak computers, Nuked OPN2 requires much more powerful than even Nuked OPL3 because Nuked OPN2 is the cycle-accurate simulator of the real chip.
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