[Closed] [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

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[ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Rachael » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:38 am

I don't know if this is a problem with my local compile, or if it exists like this in the master.

Config: GZDoom
Reverb: Standard
Reverb Level: 15
Chorus: On

This is what I hear:
(keep in mind this is not a serious gameplay vid, the only purpose of recording it was to play the music)

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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:40 am

So what's wrong there? I never use reverb because it always sounds awful.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Rachael » Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:45 am

Most of the melody is pitched really badly, almost as if it was played in a minor key but worse. It does not sound at all like TNT's original melody for that map.

Doom2's MAP08 also has this problem.

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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:03 am

Does it also happen without reverb?
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Rachael » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:06 am

Yes, it does. I disabled reverb and the melody is still really fucked.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Gez » Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:32 am

I can confirm "Into the Beast's Belly" (TNT music for MAP08, MAP27, and MAP30) sounds absolutely horrible in TiMidity++ even with reverb and chorus off. Whereas in FluidSynth for example, it only sounds horrible with reverb and chorus on, and even then, not as horrible as TiMidity++. WildMidi also sounds okay. GUS emulation sounds a bit weird, but I'm gonna chalk it on the instrument mapping, the melodic lines are fine. OPL synth emulation sounds fine (for OPL, I mean, it's horrible but normally horrible :p), libADL and libOPN work similarly (though I had to reduce the number of emulated ADL cores down to 4 or it went silent after a couple of seconds, maybe it's a performance issue with Nukey's core though), and the MS wavetable softsynth works fine too.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:08 am

Does it also sound horrible when using the original Timidity.exe? Or with 32 bit GZDoom? Or with a pre-ZMusic version?

Keep in mind, however that I have encountered a handful of songs where depending on the sound font the result can vary significantly and break apart when played with the wrong one. So what sound font are you using?
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Gez » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:07 am

Doing quick tests

GZDoom 3.1.0: correct music playback, and GUS emulation also sounds a lot more normal, too.
GZDoom 3.2.0: music doesn't work at all for some reason (even when cycling through all other MIDI devices), sounds work however but no music on any map.
GZDoom 3.3.0: music works again, but sounds awful on TNT MAP30.

I did not notice changes between 32-bit and 64-bit versions.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby sinisterseed » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:08 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Or with a pre-ZMusic version?

This much I can tell.

Just re-downloaded 4.2.4 and Timidity++ seems borked in that version as well. Fluidsynth seems to sound much better than it. So, I don't think this is tied to the transition to ZMusic.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:27 am

@Gez: This means something went wrong when adding native Timidity++ support. It also means that there's virtually no reference to find out what may be causing it.

But you still haven't told me what sound font you are using!
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Nash » Tue Mar 17, 2020 11:56 am

The notes coming out of the music sounds WAAAAAY off. It's like they're composed in the wrong key. That 100% does not sound right at all.

It sounds like every note is consistently offset a few semitones. Maybe it's a +/- typo in the code.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby sinisterseed » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:06 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:But you still haven't told me what sound font you are using!

The default gzdoom.sf2 me thinks, I didn't use custom soundfonts when I tried to reproduce this in 4.2.4 either, and Timidity++ sounds wrong with it.

What I find upsetting now is - ...just how did I not notice this earlier. This was a legit WTF moment for me. Timidity++ is my go-to MIDI player in GZDoom and I'm only now noticing it was broken since... forever??
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:12 pm

Nash wrote:The notes coming out of the music sounds WAAAAAY off. It's like they're composed in the wrong key. That 100% does not sound right at all.

It sounds like every note is consistently offset a few semitones. Maybe it's a +/- typo in the code.



I do not know enough about how MIDI works, but I never noticed anything with the songs I've been playing. How come that it only affects this one song?
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby Nash » Tue Mar 17, 2020 12:48 pm

Not sure. I'm just going off the videos Rachael posted. Actually, here's what I found:

For the TNT MAP30 video, the rhythm thing at the start is wrong by 3 semitones lower.
For the Doom 2 MAP08 video, the lead tone starting at 1:13 is wrong by 8 semitones higher.

So it seems the note offset isn't consistent.

I also haven't noticed this because I only play with the OPL music renderer, which plays the songs correctly.
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Re: [ZMusic] Timidity is just slightly broken. Slightly.

Postby phantombeta » Tue Mar 17, 2020 2:38 pm

Not sure if it's really the case, but I swear only gzdoom.sf2 seems to sound absurdly broken to me with Timidity++ on my end. Arachno-v1, Airfont 380, SGM-V2 and WeedsGM3 all seem to sound far better than gzdoom.sf2.
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