[Not a bug] [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby Kinsie » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:10 am

Darkcrafter wrote:As you said before it's because a doom map must contain one-sided linedefs to leave redundand things behind and cut them from the rendering pipeline. The maps I play have almost zero one-sides and heaps of 3d floors and they naturally don't block anything.
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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:25 am

phantombeta wrote:Brutal Doom and Project Brutality are terribly coded and horribly unoptimized, so that's not surprising at all.
Here's a thing to think about: Doom ticks at 35 Hz. Most modern games tick at far less than that. The more often you tick the game and update the actors, doors, lifts, etc., the less time you have to render frames. That's already one issue right there.

Doom's level geometry is also highly dynamic. Every sector can move up and down in it. The reason Quake is so much faster is because the actual level geometry is *completely static*.


While that is certainly true, one should never forget that Quake's original levels are also rather small. If you factor out the lightmaps they look really, really bland.
But as things stand, preparing Quake's geometry for being rendered is a lot less complex than Doom's. It's not just that the geometry is dynamic. Another issue is that textures can basically change at random. In Quake even a switch is an entity so even considering texture animations you normally know up-front if parts of the level mesh may change. There's no chance to do this with Doom, especially when scripting needs to be considered.

All things considered, Doom is probably one of the most GPU-hostile games that ever got a hardware accelerated renderer because none of 1993's design concepts translate well.
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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby Elias79 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:03 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:All things considered, Doom is probably one of the most GPU-hostile games that ever got a hardware accelerated renderer because none of 1993's design concepts translate well.


It would be very interesting to know a bit more about this, i suspected something was up when the software renderer gave me +45 fps in nuts while hardware only managed around 12 fps and even worse, i have also noticed the same thing using project brutality and brutal doom mods when i rendering actors and since it "went away" when using software rendering or at least was 4-6 times faster 5-12(open gl) vs 45-65(software) fps, what could be done to improve this, i assume vulkan could only do so much unless you could "fix" the sprite rendering issue i read about here.

I hope we get a "ray tracing" version when it become more mainstream, im not sure how software is so different from gpu rendering but i understand that doom lacks the proper "3d" to utilize modern hardware as i understand it (ie polygons and such) im guessing a better renderer could be made but that would brake mod and backwards compability.
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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat May 04, 2019 3:24 pm

The hardware renderer shouldn't be that slow, unless you got a low level graphics card.
The one exception to this is dynamic lights. On Nuts, having lights active can easily kill all performance. Normally, Nuts runs faster for me with hardware rendering than with software rendering.
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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby Elias79 » Sat May 04, 2019 3:45 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:The hardware renderer shouldn't be that slow, unless you got a low level graphics card.
The one exception to this is dynamic lights. On Nuts, having lights active can easily kill all performance. Normally, Nuts runs faster for me with hardware rendering than with software rendering.


Not only nuts but other maps iv made and tried playing with brutal doom derivatives are also very slow with hardware on all 3 of my computers.
My best Best GPU is a Radeon r9 280x, the newest a Geforce 960 4GB and the laptop uses a Geforce 850 Mobile.

I had all types of lights disabled and everything else demanding or advanced disabled too.
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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby Apeirogon » Thu May 16, 2019 9:41 am

Graf Zahl wrote:That's not 3D. That's just two planes.

A little bit late answer, but...
Originally I thought that lights works in a way like "check if squared distance from light actor to sector vertexes greater than squared light radius; if yes, light sector in some radius around self; if no, check what lines it meet and then check if this line one sided or no" and then iterate over all neighbor sectors until first condition, that with squared distance, does not return true.
But look like lights use BSP data from renderer to determine what it can light. And since it have map data only in XY plane format, my suggestion would wont work.
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Re: [4.0.0] Light penetrates through lifts

Postby axredneck » Thu May 16, 2019 5:20 pm

Darkcrafter wrote:...I'm sorry, but should I indeed get GTX 1080 to play THIS?...

No, you should get I7 8800. GZDoom with Brutal Doom becomes CPU-heavy, not GPU-heavy.
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