[Fixed] Can't pickup more than one of each key.

Bugs that have been investigated and resolved somehow.

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Postby Giest118 » Sat Dec 27, 2003 7:55 pm

HotWax wrote:(BTW, you might know all this if you'd ever designed a decent level in your life.)


I have made a decent level before.... just not for Doom.
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Postby Lumpy » Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:09 pm

The IDKFA thing yea I saw it to. Appearently he is addicted to that combination of letters. So much so that when he tries to put us down for telling him to use IDFA instead, he still types IDKFA.

He should go to the Betty Street Clinic ( funded by both Betty Ford, and Sesame Street). Maybe they can help him realize that even though the letter "K" can sponsor a kids show, that doesn't mean it has to be put into every cheat code.

K......K.....K....K...K..K.KK

Think of the amount of time you will gain by not typing that letter. A couple milliseconds a day adds up to about an hour a year.

Some of you do have reasonible points for this to be changed. But to simply ask for this because you think it's fun to pick up a whole bunch of keys, or because you type IDKFA all the time by repition is completely idiotic.

If you do it by repition so much that even when you were suppose to type IDFA in a sentence you still type IDKFA you must need help. Not to mention the fact that you didn't catch your mistake and edit it as such. Which not only proves that you type it by repition, but you read it as such to.
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Postby HotWax » Sat Dec 27, 2003 11:47 pm

Or that might have been the whole (joking) point of his entire post.

You're still forgetting that cheat codes were put in to help map designers get around their maps easier and test different areas. A cheat code that hinders the designer is backwards thinking. Besides, even if they type IDFA, what about the blue key that's behind the red door?
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Postby Enjay » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:22 am

summon redcard

or

give redcard
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Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Dec 28, 2003 8:31 am

Lumpy wrote:
Some of you do have reasonible points for this to be changed. But to simply ask for this because you think it's fun to pick up a whole bunch of keys, or because you type IDKFA all the time by repition is completely idiotic.




No, some are asking for this because that's the way vanilla Doom handled it. If the original behavior had been to disallow picking up duplicate keys this would never have been started in the first place.

If you don't believe me here's the original key pickup code (it's part of a large case)

Code: Select allExpand view
    case SPR_YKEY:
      if (!player->cards[it_yellowcard])
        player->message = s_GOTYELWCARD; // Ty 03/22/98 - externalized
      P_GiveCard (player, it_yellowcard);
      if (!netgame)
        break;
      return;

... after the case block

  if (special->flags & MF_COUNTITEM)
    player->itemcount++;
  P_RemoveMobj (special);
  player->bonuscount += BONUSADD;



Unless in multiplayer (where the key always remains) the P_RemoveMobj call is always executed and the key removed, even it it has no benefits to the player.
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Postby HotWax » Sun Dec 28, 2003 12:05 pm

Enjay wrote:summon redcard

or

give redcard


As has been pointed out by others, that's unnecessarily tedious. I've heard plenty of people give various reasons why this behavior should be restored (Vanilla Doom did it, it's easier on mappers, maps don't break when you use the IDKFA cheat, etc.), but I've yet to hear a single good reason not to make this change. If it takes one line of code to do it and has absolutely no adverse side-effects, frankly I don't see why we're here on page 6 continuing this discussion.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:06 pm

HotWax wrote:frankly I don't see why we're here on page 6 continuing this discussion.



Me neither. This is the most ridiculous bug discussion thread that has ever been started here - and it's only going on because some people here insist on keeping a behavior that's clearly unintended.
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Postby Enjay » Sun Dec 28, 2003 4:36 pm

HotWax wrote:As has been pointed out by others, that's unnecessarily tedious.


I don't see it as especially tedious, but frankly I don't really care which way this is done either. If this is "fixed" or if it remains as it is at present, I don't really care. There are ways round the problems that can arise from either method, just as long as we know what the rules are. Although the default for any discussion of this type seems to be to revert to original doom behaviour - something I personally care less and less about as time goes on. Regardless of that, I do know that my post was answering a specific question:

HotWax wrote:Besides, even if they type IDFA, what about the blue key that's behind the red door?


Tedious or not, what I posted covers that one. :)
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Postby Lumpy » Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:07 pm

HotWax wrote:
maps don't break when you use the IDKFA cheat, etc


Actually they do. Type IDKFA (or IDFA) right before you try to pick up a chainsaw and see what happens. If there is an essential script that must be run when you pick up that chainsaw your screwed. Thats the point of cheat codes, to break through the normal limitations of the game. I also agree that this is getting a little bit rediculious. I don't even care anymore. I guess I just don't see why everybody wants this.

1) This is how the original Doom did it.
A) So what ZDoom does a lot of things that the original wouldn't, and
couldn't do. Why don't we all go over to the legacy forums and ask
them to get rid of the 3D floors because the original Doom wasn't
actually 3D. Or ask JDoom to get rid of the coronas, or go tell
SkullTag to get rid of all those extra weapons and items.
2) I want to be able to assign a special to that extra key, or keys.
A) Use something else that will be more likely be picked up by the
player.
B) If your level has any scripting at all you could simply take the key
away, and then the player will be able to pick-up the second key. In
a way you must do this anyway, because if the player already has
that key what is going to intice him to pick up another one.
3) I want to enjoy the levels that were made just to make fun of; Doom,
source ports, and Doomers in general (Like Mock).
A) Take your riddilin, and finish the level (and/or megawad).

I'm done thats my five cents. I give up on it. If this gets changed to the "Original Way" I will write down the date in my calendar for future reference. That way if anybody wants it changed back to the way it is now I can shoot them down with a hyperlink to this forum topic. Hopefully that will avoid another 6 pages of arguments over something so stupid. The hell with it I'm out. Argue on folks, and stop the improvement. Maybe someday ZDoom will be changed to be exactly like the original. Oh wait if it would why would we even need ZDoom.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:20 am

Does it ever stop??? :(
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Postby HotWax » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:53 am

Lumpy wrote:Actually they do. Type IDKFA (or IDFA) right before you try to pick up a chainsaw and see what happens. If there is an essential script that must be run when you pick up that chainsaw your screwed.


Then maybe ZDoom should let you pick up multiple chainsaws. Seriously, now you're just nitpicking. The fix for picking up multiple keys would take less than what you've just written, BTW.

Thats the point of cheat codes, to break through the normal limitations of the game.


By limiting the player more?

I also agree that this is getting a little bit rediculious. I don't even care anymore. I guess I just don't see why everybody wants this.

1) This is how the original Doom did it.
A) So what ZDoom does a lot of things that the original wouldn't, and
couldn't do. Why don't we all go over to the legacy forums and ask
them to get rid of the 3D floors because the original Doom wasn't
actually 3D. Or ask JDoom to get rid of the coronas, or go tell
SkullTag to get rid of all those extra weapons and items.


Wow, you just leaped the largest hurdle in the world and turned one statement into a whole different concept. Nobody on here is saying any of what you just said, why infer that they are? There's a difference between not wanting anything improved from vanilla Doom and wanting to ensure compatibility with old maps. Why hasn't Randy fixed all of Doom's slight inconsistancies in precision and such? Because old maps might use them or might be incompatible. Why hasn't he scrapped the WAD format or map format for something better? Same reason. Why with the last few versions has he bothered to get old WADs that were improperly made working with his new texturing system so they work again? Because in addition to being fans of ZDoom, we're all fans of Doom, and we want any level made for vanilla Doom to work in ZDoom if at all possible. That includes levels that for some reason include multiple keys, particularly since it means no negative side-effects for any other maps and would take all of a single line of code to implement.

2) I want to be able to assign a special to that extra key, or keys.
A) Use something else that will be more likely be picked up by the
player.
B) If your level has any scripting at all you could simply take the key
away, and then the player will be able to pick-up the second key. In
a way you must do this anyway, because if the player already has
that key what is going to intice him to pick up another one.


A: Um. If the player wants to complete the level, he kind of has to pick up the key. Who needs "be more likely be" (nice englinsch :roll:) when they have to.
B: This isn't about levels with multiple keys. It's about map designers wanting to test their maps more easily, or the player who wants to cheat and still be able to complete the level he's playing. Using scripting you could still make multiple keys worthwhile to the player, however (see my earlier post for an example), but you could use something else too. In any case, I don't think this was ever anyone's argument.

3) I want to enjoy the levels that were made just to make fun of; Doom,
source ports, and Doomers in general (Like Mock).
A) Take your riddilin, and finish the level (and/or megawad).


Why is it that when somebody doesn't have a valid argument they start insulting people? And if it's us who are on riddlen, why isn't any one on the other side of the argument paying attention? Once again, there are reasons to make this change, whether you like them or not. Because vanilla Doom did it, because it would make a mapper's job that much easier, because people are going to cheat and if it's at all possible to avoid breaking the level when they do, then the level should remain unbroken.

Multiple people have already said the same things, but all you're seeing is what you want to see. Give us a good reason not to make the change. No insults, or mindless banter (giest), or any comments about crazy people. Just a good, solid reason why not to let people pick up multiple keys. We're all waiting.
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Postby Xaser » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:51 pm

HotWax wrote:5: It would allow silly maps like Mock2 to let the player pick up multiple (useless) keys, just for fun. You don't have to understand why. You just have to accept that others might want to.


Actually, there is a use to that. On the part on the "Toxic Depot" level (25, I think) where it starts raining keys, I've had it slow down my system a couple of times. Picking up the keys would help to speed it up.

Heh. I'm glad most of the people here are agreeing with me on the key thing.

Oh, and Geist, no hard feelings or anything. I'm glad you got over your silly spurt there.
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Postby HotWax » Mon Dec 29, 2003 5:57 pm

I think we'd all be glad if giest would start thinking before posting.
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Postby randi » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:09 pm

Fixed.
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Postby Zell » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:12 pm

Virgil wrote:What argument? :D /grin is accompanied by blank stare

Zell, just copy/paste 1 line, then copy/paste the 2 lines, then copy/paste the 4 lines, etc. Exponential growth is faster than holding the enter key. Send me the text file after you're done, I wanna see if it crashes TextPad.

will do, give me another hour or so (forgot I was doing this! lmao)
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