[Not a bug] when textures and flats clash

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when textures and flats clash

Postby SargeBaldy » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:27 pm

I guess this is kind of a bug... or at least something that seems to have been overlooked. I was trying to use step2 (the floor graphic) as a wall texture, but ZDoom decides to use the wall texture instead. Perhaps you can add a way for editors to give flats preference?
Last edited by SargeBaldy on Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby HotWax » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:29 pm

Copy the flat graphic into the TX_ area, or to the flat area with a unique name.
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Postby SargeBaldy » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:34 pm

Yes, that's the perfectly obvious solution, but it just seems sloppy. But I guess I'll have to do that in the meanwhile since this map is for Dec 10...
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Postby HotWax » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:37 pm

Personally I think it's perfectly valid, and adding yet another feature to circumvent this would be needlessly wasteful. How often are you going to run into the situation of having matching texture and flat names? Remember, TX is supposed to (ideally) replace the current texture/flat system, so anybody using new graphics shouldn't see this as an issue. Copying the graphic (with or without a different name) to the TX_ area in the rare instance you run into this problem doesn't seem that "sloppy" to me. :?
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Postby SargeBaldy » Mon Dec 08, 2003 11:45 pm

This is a standard Doom texture though. You *can't* use step1 or step2 as a wall unless you add it as a new texture right now (and technically that's breach of copyright :P)
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Postby Cyb » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:05 am

it's not a bug it's the intended behavior. If a flat and a texture have the same name then when placing it on a wall the texture gets precedence and the flat gets precedence on floors. There's no way around that really, because what if you want to use the flat on one wall but the texture on other walls? You'll have to either make the flat into a texture or as steve said stick it in a TX_ section
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Postby SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:19 am

Well, I was thinking something along the lines of a new linedef flag.
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Postby Cyb » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:21 am

if I remember correctly there's only one possible flag left and I don't think using it for something where there's a simple alternative is an overly constructive use
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Postby SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 12:31 am

Oh, well even I'll admit this definitely isn't worth the final flag. Maybe ACS commands then? RenderAsFlat(TID) and RenderAsWall(TID) (the latter being for sectors)? Your solution is definitely easy (it only took me 30 seconds to do) but it's an awfully sloppy way to deal with such a simple problem.
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 3:58 am

SargeBaldy wrote:Oh, well even I'll admit this definitely isn't worth the final flag. Maybe ACS commands then? RenderAsFlat(TID) and RenderAsWall(TID) (the latter being for sectors)? Your solution is definitely easy (it only took me 30 seconds to do) but it's an awfully sloppy way to deal with such a simple problem.



Frankly, I don't think this is worth any effort. If there are name clashes between flats and walls something has to have precedence and since there are easy workarounds spending any amount of work on this is a waste of time. Just give the texture a unique name and be done. AFAIK there are less than 5 name clashes in Doom.wad which can easily be resolved with a minimum amount of work and resource duplication.
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Postby HotWax » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:07 am

Ugh. Sloppy in what way?? Breach of contract or not, the only way they can use your level is to own an associated commercial wad (Unless you're providing all the other resources as well? :roll:), so that's not an issue. You have to use it in, let's see... one... two... two cases, and you call it "awfully sloppy"? What about every other port on the planet that doesn't let you use any of the flats on walls or any of the textures on ceillings/floors? If this is "awfully sloppy" all those ports must be a complete mess not worth anyone's time of day.

This is the most minor problem I've ever heard of, a 30-second proceedure will get around the issue entirely, and you want an extra ACS command, line flag, Dehacked parameter, whatever just to save 1 in 100 authors that 30-second fix?

If this goes in, might I suggest the following documentation for the "fix":

Line flag (insert into editor of choice): "Reverse priority for this wall only to allow STEP1 or STEP2 flat to show."
Oh, and don't forget... you need a matching sector tag for the other case... or two tags, one for the ceiling and one for the floor... I mean, c'mon let's not limit people here!! What if someone wants to use STEP2 the flat on the ceiling, and STEP1 the texture on the floor?!?!!!!1oneone

ACS command:

AnalStepFlatWorkaround(tag), AnalStepTextureWorkaroundCeil(tag), AnalStepTextureWorkaroundFloor(tag):

Each of these commands takes the tag of a line or sector and overrides the default behavior of Doom and replaces the texture or flat with the matching FLAT1 or FLAT2 resource, so that SargeBaldy's map will work without him having to include the 30-odd bytes of graphic in the download. (Nevermind that the identifiers and source code for these new commands arguably take up more resources...)
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Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:25 am

Definitely does not seem like a bug to me. Zdoom is handling this in a perfectly logical manner. To do otherwise by default would be silly, and break any wad that currently has STEP1 on a line. Coding a work around for a situation that is actually doing what it should seems pointless, especially as there is already a solution.

It's just one of those anomalies that have arisen from Zdoom allowing the flexibility of using a system that Doom never had, and so such clashes were unimportant. Now that the clashes have become an issue, Zdoom (or rather Randy) deals with it sensibly.
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Postby SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 4:49 am

Well, of course I wouldn't suggest the other way be true by default (although Doom Builder actually does read the flats before the texture, so in 3d mode it shows the graphic I wanted). But any "workaround" that requires me to include copyrighted Doom textures does seem very sloppy, when you consider the textures are already included in the iwad...
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Postby Graf Zahl » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:35 am

I seriously doubt that anybody will complain if you add 2 graphics that are availavle in the shareware version of Doom1 to your WAD. People have been adding flats as textures and vice versa to their WADs for ages. I could point you to hundreds of them. These are 2 textures with 8192 bytes total so yes, I think this is ridiculous and the amount of work required to make any workaround work isn't worth it.

Regarding the Doom Builder issue, that's a bug!
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Postby SargeBaldy » Tue Dec 09, 2003 6:56 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Regarding the Doom Builder issue, that's a bug!
I am well aware of that. Anyway I don't care enough to argue this point any more.
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