[Fixed] Hexen Mana

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Hexen Mana

Postby Sparky » Wed Nov 26, 2003 10:16 pm

Sometimes When I Run Out Of Mana
My Weapons Go Away, But I Can Still Attack
This Attack Is Really Strong, SO I Have No Weapon Out But I Can Still Attack

And I Have This Yellow Thingy Bobbing Like A Weapon In The Top Left Hand Corner Of My Screen

Iv Only Testes It Out Hexen: Death Kings
So I Guess It Would StilL Work In Normal Hexen
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Postby Chilvence » Thu Nov 27, 2003 4:27 am

All your really experiencing is a side effect of cheating. Strifes mauler uses the same sprite name as the disc of repulsion - so when the game checks the existance of the maulers sprites to decide whether it will give it to you or not, it finds the disc and assumes that those are the correct graphics. That is the powerful attack you are talking about.
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Postby Sparky » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:04 am

whats strife have to do with hexen though? im confused :S i dont play hexen that much
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Postby Enjay » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:22 am

Strife has nothing to do with Hexen. However, Zdoom has some support for Strife. Any game that Zdoom supports can have weapons and items from the other suppported games brought into it. We have already seen a few mods which use Heretic and Hexen weapons in Doom. Now that Strife is supported, you can bring Strife weapons into Heretic, Hexen and Doom. All you have to do is provide suitable sprites and sounds.

However, because the Strife Mauler weapon uses the same sprite names as the Hexen Disc, Zdoom is fooled into thinking you have the sprites for the weapon available. This wouldn't normally cause any confusion, but seeing as how you have been cheating, you have been given all the weapons that have sprites loaded - including the Strife Mauler. When you have run out of mana, you still have mauler ammo, and so change to that weapon.

This is how it should be. To do otherwise would restrict the ability to move weapons around the different games that Zdoom supports.
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Postby Sparky » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:47 am

ook, but how can randy fix it so this doesnt happen?
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Postby HotWax » Thu Nov 27, 2003 6:58 am

He can change is so when you type "idkfa" a hand reaches out of your monitor, slaps you, and then scolds you on using cheat codes.
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Postby Enjay » Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:06 am

Perhaps so that game specific cheats only give you game specific items, but "give all" still gives all. Seems like more hassle than it's worth though. And anyway, I like IDFA giving me all the weapons I have included sprites for - regardless of which game they really belong to.

You could get round it by not using cheats that give you everything, but using item specific cheats and summoning items instead.
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Postby Nanami » Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:25 am

Shouldn't Randy simply make it so it will only give you a weapon if the sprites are available AND it's defined in KEYCONF?

I have a similar problem in a mod I'm making where it will switch you to the pistol or plasma rifle when one weapon runs out of ammo, but my KEYCONF has completely removed any and all Doom weapons from the game.

If you ask me, this sounds fairly reasonable. =P
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Postby Sparky » Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:17 pm

yes, very weird
shouldnt be hard to fix
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Postby Enjay » Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:48 pm

I can conceive of situations where a mapper might want a weapon to be in the game, but not in keyconf. In fact, I have a mod like that.

I assume, Nanami, you have been able to get round your problem - eg does taking the ammo and/or weapons from the inventory solve it?
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Postby Nanami » Sun Nov 30, 2003 1:22 am

Why would you want to have a weapon but not allow the player to access it normally...?

Anyway, I'd have to take the ammo with scripts every tic to make sure the player can never switch to the weapon.
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Postby Enjay » Sun Nov 30, 2003 4:30 am

Nanami wrote:Why would you want to have a weapon but not allow the player to access it normally...?


Because it could be a weapon that you only get after a certain event and you are given it by a certain set of circumstances. eg a battle to the death with specific weapons in an arena where you have removed all other weapons. Or when the player is changed into another type of monster which the weapon helps simulate, or a magical weapon you are given but told you can only use the one time - for as long as you hold it - but put it down and you lose it...

OK, so I know that you can set things up so that an honest player simply doesn't have the weapon outside the given set of circumstances (in any of the above cases). However, it would be even better for the weapon to not be on a key so that even a cheating player can't easily switch to it.
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Postby Killo Zapit » Sun Nov 30, 2003 11:31 pm

I think that in games where sprite conflicts with other games like this exist, the conflicting actors/weapons/items form the other games should be ether explicitly forbidden to be spawned/given in a game mode where it would cause a conflict, or better yet use remapped sprite names to avoid conflict in that game mode.
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Postby Chilvence » Mon Dec 01, 2003 12:39 am

Well, theres a problem with that logic though - in doom/heretic, should you be prevented from using the disc of repulsion or the mauler? The dark servant or the maulataur?

It only becomes noticable at all when you use the cheat codes, so I dont think it should be changed in any way. The only way to completely avoid it through remapping the sprite names, is for Randy to include sprites for all the conflicting items inside zdoom.wad itself, which would send the file size up a large amount (not to mention step on copyright issues, for whatever thats worth.)
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Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Dec 01, 2003 3:05 am

Another option would be to include a config file that allows selective changing of conflicting names in a game. It's obvious that each game has to work with its own IWAD but what, for example, if you want to use the Disc of Repulsion and the mauler in the same level?
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