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Enjay
 
 
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Enjay »

On the lost souls, they are still translucent in 4.7.1 which is several months old now. When 4.8 is released, they will be opaque by default. (If you want to try a git build, that should already have the new defaults: https://devbuilds.drdteam.org/gzdoom/ )

As I said, the current setup is very close to how I personally like it. So pretty much any change away from that would not suit me. But it is all personal choice stuff.

I think a good argument not to change it is that these have been the defaults for a long time and regular users are used to it like this. You know how when a piece of software that you use changes something and you can't find it, and keep looking in the wrong place for months afterwards, and the change just seems like a change for the sake of change? That's how this would feel to me. Your mileage may vary, as they say.
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Rachael
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Rachael »

Unfortunately 4.7.1 (the latest version) is a bit old by now. A newer version is in the works and should be available soon, but as always we don't have a date, it's a "when it's ready" type of thing as always.
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chunks
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Re: Default Settings

Post by chunks »

Enjay wrote:I think a good argument not to change it is that these have been the defaults for a long time and regular users are used to it like this. You know how when a piece of software that you use changes something and you can't find it, and keep looking in the wrong place for months afterwards, and the change just seems like a change for the sake of change? That's how this would feel to me. Your mileage may vary, as they say.
I kinda feel similar with the addition of the "simplified" options menu option. Though I don't believe any of the changes I suggested are "just for the sake of change", as I've explained.
Also not changing things just because they've been a certain way for so long is a terrible thing.
Fear not the movement of the heavens above or the earth below.
For change is what we are, my child.
Righteous are those who look up and sway with the wind,
Who look down and dance with the shifting of the soil,
Who swim with the movement of the tides,
Who seek the truth around them and discover that we are, and have always been in paradise. The reflections of heaven on earth.
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Graf Zahl
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Graf Zahl »

All that still does not make your preferences more acceptable than what is there now.
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chunks
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Re: Default Settings

Post by chunks »

Graf Zahl wrote:All that still does not make your preferences more acceptable than what is there now.
All preferences are acceptable. I'm merely striving for an improved default experience for new users.
But I believe I've made my points clear. I'll leave it in your hands from here.
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Graf Zahl
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Graf Zahl »

You made your points clear - but ultimately it still boils down to "my defaults are better than yours" and that's never a compelling argument for change.
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chunks
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Re: Default Settings

Post by chunks »

Graf Zahl wrote:You made your points clear - but ultimately it still boils down to "my defaults are better than yours" and that's never a compelling argument for change.
Not quite, more like "I believe these defaults are more intuitive for new and inexperienced users, closer to vanilla doom, as well as being less resource dependant for users with low spec machines."
Again, these settings aren't nearly what I default to, check out my streams at twitch.tv/thechunks , my shit looks fucking whack. I have all the shit fucking CRANKED, shaders are off the god damn chain, it's a god damn mess and that's the way I like it. Oversaturated, Bloom cranked up, sometimes I turn on shaders that make it virtually impossible to see what's even going on... it's enough to make you want to puke. BUT TO REITERATE: THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME. It's about the brazilian kid who just got his brothers old Athlon Lima system and can finally try out the lastest Cacoward nominees. He doesn't know shit about windows or sourceports or how to configure any of it so he just grabs freedoom and gzdoom and doesn't touch anything for fear of breaking it. Don't you want what's best for him? Give him the experience he deserves. He doesn't need Trilinear or Anisotropic filtering, it just bogs his already overtaxed system down. His ancient CRT monitor has an odd resolution, so his HUD is small and warped, and he doesn't know how to fix it. When he encounters a cyberdemon his game lags because of all of the particle effects. Won't you help him? Please?
Gez
 
 
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Gez »

The particle system was added way back then in 1999, back when the most powerful machines of the day would not be able to even start running GZDoom today. (Compatibility with Windows 9x is very long gone after all... Even Windows XP has been dropped.) I'm not going to believe that rocket trail particles are what prevents a poor Brazilian kid from fighting cyberdemons.
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Enjay
 
 
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Enjay »

chunks wrote:I kinda feel similar with the addition of the "simplified" options menu option.
As do I to be honest. Switching that off is something I always do the first time I go to the options in a new install. I personally don't find it helpful to have some options hidden. But then I'm a long-time user who is used to all the options being immediately present.

chunks wrote:Though I don't believe any of the changes I suggested are "just for the sake of change", as I've explained.
Indeed you have. But for me your ideas would feel that way because they would be less useful to me and mean that setting up a new install was more work. That's why I said it would feel that way to me. It's all just personal opinion stuff - reasoned or not.
quote wrote:Also not changing things just because they've been a certain way for so long is a terrible thing.
I couldn't agree more, but only if the changes are for the better, and I don't believe that your suggestions are for the better. To me, they are merely different (and, personally, less convenient). So, to me, they would be change for the sake if change and frustrating in the way that I said.


And that's the whole point of what I and others have been saying: your ideas are just another version of "I think this is best" (reasoned or not). I don't think your suggestions are best, or even better, and the current defaults allow me to set up GZDoom in a few seconds because they are very close to what I want anyway. For me, a change away from that would be less convenient and feel very much like change for the sake of change: one person's opinion swapped out for another person's, no more or less valid, opinion.

I realise that may come across as selfish, but I wouldn't object to changes if I thought that they were for the better, even if they were less convenient for me. However, I do not feel that your suggestions are better I feel that they are based around a flawed concept of how GZDoom should look and behave when you first fire it up.* Your "should look" and my "should look" are different. In other words, it's just a difference of opinion. And that's OK but changing things to your "should look" confers no great advantage IMO and therefore would be change for the sake of it.

* for example, one of your premises, that certain features should be off unless explicitly switched on [for "how it was meant to be" and performance reasons (I don't believe performance is really an issue for most people with these settings BTW)] runs the risk of a player not realising that those features exist. I mean, why would they? To me, it is much better to teach a player that texture filtering, or whatever, is a thing. They can then switch it off if they like, but they now know that it exists. Finding out about such features otherwise would mean them having to look for something that they might not even know is there.

Taken to the extreme, and I know of people who do take this argument to the extreme, this reasoning would mean that GZDoom should start up at 320x200 resolution with everything switched off that wasn't in Doom.exe in 1993. I know that you haven't argued for that, but I see nothing in what you have suggested that makes where you have decided the correct place along that spectrum is any better than anyone else's opinion on that matter, or versus the current defaults.


TL:DR Again, it all boils down to differences of opinion and I don't think your suggestions are objectively better than the current values. Everything I have said is just arguing in circles around that central idea.
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Rachael
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Re: Default Settings

Post by Rachael »

For anyone wondering why this was closed with a ban - the OP did not understand the meaning of "no" and started resorting to messages that showed clear obsession and desperation with the topic, to the point where the whole issue started seeming downright creepy. It was taken to private message where .... things did not go well.

In general that is a rule on the ZDoom forum here too - know when to take "no" for an answer. This isn't the first time we've had to ban someone for that. I don't know how many times this guy got a "no" answer, but after a certain number of times you should know you need to back the fuck off. Respect others' agency and all that. Or just respect people, in general.

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