"Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby zrrion the insect » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Rachael wrote:We didn't think that many people used it anymore

Just do GZspyware round 2 to get reports on what everyone uses next time duh :P
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Rachael » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:02 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:This entire thread was totally misguided, and MC deserves to be slapped with a wet fish in the face as punishment for it. :twisted: Mentioning that idiotic screen size setting tool was the dumbest thing he could possibly have done.

I am going to disagree here, mostly because he asked me about it first, and I said he could post it.

Granted, I was dealing with another pretty intense situation at the time, but I did not see anything wrong with it when he mentioned it to me.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby iSpook » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:03 pm

Rachael wrote:
iSpook wrote:what I DID say that "Hey, maybe you guys should TALK such changes out with the community, before you go ahead and make said changes, instead of doing it and then expecting us to understand afterward." You know, something that should probably be done when you're working on something a lot of people use regularly.

And I am going to play devil's advocate here, and say: That should not be necessary. If you disagree with a change, it's fine to speak up about it, but if we had to clear every minor change to the engine with the community, nothing would EVER get done. So it really comes down to: Either you love it, or you fork it. (Good thing the GPL encourages that) That's not to be completely apathetic about it, it's just that we need freedom to move around here, too, on our end.


And your attempt to play DA kinda falls flat, because:
1.) I said MAJOR change. What you did ISN'T a minor change to us. It might be to you, but it's not to us. I didn't say EVERY minor change, either. Just when it's shit like this.
2.) Yeah, and what if we don't have the technical prowess to fork it? You're basically telling those who can't fork it to "Just grin and deal with it, because tough." Which leads to shit like what's happened in this thread.

Honestly, you should just take what I've said and apply it, since it'd really, really save you lot a headache, but hey. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Rachael » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:04 pm

zrrion the insect wrote:
Rachael wrote:We didn't think that many people used it anymore

Just do GZspyware round 2 to get reports on what everyone uses next time duh :P

The fact that you even have to "suggest" that I think proves how little it actually does. :P
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Mike12 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:04 pm

Hege Cactus wrote:I kinda have to agree with this here
In my earlier post I was literally just confused so all I could say was why it felt worrying, but now that the thing has been opened up bit better, its actually less alarming.
But with it just coming out like that snap and with very little explanation, it was really like "wait what?"

If it was opened up from the beginning this reaction probably wouldn't have happened.


also when it comes to the tone of discussion, I think it would be nice from all sides to not assume the tone the written text to be automatically hostile or mocking, which seems to be too common nowadays.



I understand what's being said for the most part, but it still seems leave the massive issue of being able to use a list of resolutions we can select from in addition to whatever else you may want to modify to your liking. It's a common necessity for a lot of people who play games, especially on PC. Manually dragging/resizing a window (if i'm reading this right) and getting something even a couple pixels off can mess up pixels throughout an entire picture, which is a hassle in both development and gameplay.

I understand that it was thought that video resolution selection and exclusive fullscreen and the like aren't a common feature that many people use and expect, but what's important is that it is, in fact, a feature many people use.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Rachael » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:05 pm

iSpook wrote:And your attempt to play DA kinda falls flat, because:
1.) I said MAJOR change. What you did ISN'T a minor change to us. It might be to you, but it's not to us. I didn't say EVERY minor change, either. Just when it's shit like this.
2.) Yeah, and what if we don't have the technical prowess to fork it? You're basically telling those who can't fork it to "Just grin and deal with it, because tough." Which leads to shit like what's happened in this thread.

Honestly, you should just take what I've said and apply it, since it'd really, really save you lot a headache, but hey. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Sorry, but not having technical prowess to fork C++ code doesn't give you the right to dictate to those who have that ability what they must do.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:06 pm

Maybe it'd be worthwhile finding someone unaffiliated with the devteam to ask about making changes like this? An outside perspective could help prevent stuff like this.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Rachael » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:07 pm

Sgt. Shivers wrote:Maybe it'd be worthwhile finding someone unaffiliated with the devteam to ask about making changes like this? An outside perspective could help prevent stuff like this.

Again, that would be an impediment to workflow, so it is an untenable idea. It's in the dev build, and people have seen it now, and commented, That's good enough, but it could've been done without the shitstorm that followed it.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby iSpook » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:09 pm

Rachael wrote:
Sgt. Shivers wrote:Maybe it'd be worthwhile finding someone unaffiliated with the devteam to ask about making changes like this? An outside perspective could help prevent stuff like this.

Again, that would be an impediment to workflow, so it is an untenable idea. It's in the dev build, and people have seen it now, and commented, That's good enough, but it could've been done without the shitstorm that followed it.


And again, conversing with the community about something like this would have avoided the shitshow.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby dpJudas » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Sgt. Shivers wrote:Just wondering, why can't the screen be scaled with the options menu anymore? Is there something stopping the window being set for size with the new system or is it just temporarily being taken away while the resolutions are put back in?

The old video list was removed for several reasons:

1) The list was queried from the display driver. A concept utterly obsolete and in practice a hard-coded list in the display driver. Legacy resolutions like 1024x768, 800x600, which all were incorrect as the hardware doesn't actually support any of those resolutions. Modern display technology only supports one resolution as they aren't CRT displays.

2) Asking the typical user about the full screen resolution is bad UI as the answer in 99.95% of all cases is.. the actual monitor resolution. Why do you think modern newer games just ask you if it should be fullscreen + a scale factor. Apparently not only are we idiots based on the feedback, the entire gaming industry seems to be so!

3) The code was very old, included broken obsolete concepts like the LB modes that no longer made sense (the general scaling system in GZDoom handles this via other settings for a while now). It also conflicted with #2 as it required the user to make a pointless obscure decision for the majority of users.

4) The newer scaling code actually supports selecting specific resolutions. This made the old video selection code redundant. The list of options currently is pretty small, but it is trivialto add more to that list.

5) OpenGL doesn't support exclusive full screen mode changes. What we had was always a hack. Due to #3 it meant any user that selected full screen would get their desktop icons rearranged. That really sucked!

Half the feedback currently seems to come from people that have no idea what scaling features GZDoom actually has, nor puts much consideration into why we are trying to adjust the menu in the first place.

It seems like we could use some way to specify specific windowed geometry sizes, as apparently some used that feature in the old video list. That's more or less the only useful conclusions I've been able to draw from this so far.
Last edited by dpJudas on Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby bisousbisous » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:10 pm

Rachael wrote:
Sgt. Shivers wrote:Maybe it'd be worthwhile finding someone unaffiliated with the devteam to ask about making changes like this? An outside perspective could help prevent stuff like this.

Again, that would be an impediment to workflow, so it is an untenable idea. It's in the dev build, and people have seen it now, and commented, That's good enough, but it could've been done without the shitstorm that followed it.


Maybe if the idea wasn't so god awful there wouldn't have been a shitstorm

User was warned for this post - reason: non-constructive
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby phantombeta » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
DrPyspy wrote:the window would probably end up at some odd resolution (for example, 1283x717 as opposed to 1280x720.)


So? Would that matter in any way that you to got 3 horizontal pixels more and 3 vertical pixels less? If you do not like the menu layout, just drag a bit more until it suits your needs.

Yes. Yes it would. (G)ZDoom's menu and text scaling is pretty shit, and I think most of us would rather not have to fiddle with the window size for five hours just to get the menus and text to not look like crap, specially with custom ZScript menus.

Hege Cactus wrote:also when it comes to the tone of discussion, I think it would be nice from all sides to not assume the tone the written text to be automatically hostile or mocking, which seems to be too common nowadays.

That would be nice, but unfortunately, human beings tend to be pretty bad at that.

iSpook wrote:And your attempt to play DA kinda falls flat, because:
1.) I said MAJOR change. What you did ISN'T a minor change to us. It might be to you, but it's not to us. I didn't say EVERY minor change, either. Just when it's shit like this.
2.) Yeah, and what if we don't have the technical prowess to fork it? You're basically telling those who can't fork it to "Just grin and deal with it, because tough." Which leads to shit like what's happened in this thread.

Honestly, you should just take what I've said and apply it, since it'd really, really save you lot a headache, but hey. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If they don't see it as a major change, how do you expect them to know it would be a major change to us? They aren't telepaths. They can't read our minds.
Sorry, but I have to agree with Graf here. Your posts are/sound pretty self-entitled.
Last edited by phantombeta on Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:11 pm

Rachael wrote:
Sgt. Shivers wrote:Maybe it'd be worthwhile finding someone unaffiliated with the devteam to ask about making changes like this? An outside perspective could help prevent stuff like this.

Again, that would be an impediment to workflow, so it is an untenable idea. It's in the dev build, and people have seen it now, and commented, That's good enough, but it could've been done without the shitstorm that followed it.

Maybe at least get someone to read over the forum posts announcing the changes. Big announcement threads like this don't happen a whole lot.

dpJudas wrote:The old video list was removed for several reasons:


Thanks, this is a really clear explaination!
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:14 pm

Sgt. Shivers wrote:Maybe it'd be worthwhile finding someone unaffiliated with the devteam to ask about making changes like this? An outside perspective could help prevent stuff like this.



I disagree here. The more red tape is needed to do some work the more likely the people doing the work may actually quit. And frankly, even without this issue, the amount of red tape needed to manage GZDoom is already a lot higher than I like.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Mike12 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:17 pm

dpJudas wrote: things


So does this mean there is still a proper video selection screen like before, but it works better? Because that's really all I wanted to hear.
I just want easily selectable video resolutions and something that at least functions like proper exclusive fullscreen as far as mouse movement/responsiveness goes.
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