"Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Mike12 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:37 pm

Cardboard Marty wrote:
Graf Zahl wrote:What makes you think that these resolutions are "common"? GZDoom has been able to live-resize the window for quite some time and you'd be surprised what people actually use.
Your attitude won't do you any good, with such a testing approach your mod WILL break on some system - if not now, it will sometime in the future when displays show up nobody is thinking about these days.

Remember all those games from the 90's which were hardlocked to 4:3? They all look like crap on modern 16:9 monitors. Who guarantees that in 5-6 years 21:9 won't be the default aspect ratio? I don't know and you don't either, yet you want to restrict your testing to some "common" resolutions and completely forget that something that is "common" now will inevitably become an anomaly in the future. It happened to 640x480, to 800x600, to 1024x768 and also to 1280x1024. If you look around all these consitute a minority of displays. Most current displays are either 1366x768, 1920x1080, 1920x1200 or something even higher. If you make sure that your layout works on some outlandish window sizes of varying aspect ratios it will work everywhere.

Well, I did start my post with "I totally get what you mean here", so I do understand that. I thought providing an example of utilizing those specific sizes might help you as a developer understand an instance where someone might like this specific feature for ease of access. I can't really guarantee anything I make will look and play well in 2028, so you're totally correct on that front. Just my three cents is all!


There's some good points here, I think what I really want to add is that nobody would be so annoyed about this whole feature if it was an additional video option instead of being at the expense of features (easy manual video resolution change in fullscreen and window, exclusive fullscreen, etc) that people commonly use here and now.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:39 pm

wildweasel wrote:this will have been taken care of before 3.5 launches.

All I can ask is some patience and understanding from all angles.


Except for the display mode change. Sorry about that but no complaining will make me reconsider on that front! The code needed to go. Period.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:41 pm

I think the number one reason you're getting such a negative response to this is that there's no clear reasoning behind the change in the OP. I'm sure there's plenty of people who read that, thought "Oh no! They're removing resolutions for no reason!" and threw it on their discord server to complain about it. I feel like next time you decide to make a change like this try to be as detailed as possible about the reasoning behind the change so that doesn't happen. This is the 3rd or fourth incident like this and I really hope it doesn't happen again.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby edward850 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:42 pm

Rachael wrote:
edward850 wrote:Don't you still have a software renderer? What happens if the user has a 4K display, because I don't think even modern CPUs are going to drive a 4K software renderer quite that effectively.
A 3rd party solution is not an answer, especially in an age where UWP games and even some console games have user facing resolution options.

GZDoom already has a scaling system to handle that.

Then why not make the scaling system the resolution options? It would clear up a lot of confusion for a start as this thread seems to be from the result of people unable to change their display output, they probably don't care what the system-resolution is as long as the frame buffer does what they want, and it'll still do what you intend. The display size remains the same but the user can change their resolution to the desired setting that also reflects the window resolution. That's actually how it works in a lot of modern games, although you do need to account for aspect scaling.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Zan » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:43 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
wildweasel wrote:this will have been taken care of before 3.5 launches.

All I can ask is some patience and understanding from all angles.


Except for the display mode change. Sorry about that but no complaining will make me reconsider on that front! The code needed to go. Period.

Indeed. People need to think about the overview, it's not comfortable to lose this feature but it's worth it considering it makes future development easier.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Rachael » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:45 pm

edward850 wrote:Then why not make the scaling system the resolution options? It would clear up a lot of confusion for a start as this thread seems to be from the result of people unable to change their display output, they probably don't care what the system-resolution is as long as the frame buffer does what they want, and it'll still do what you intend. The display size remains the same but the user can change their resolution to the desired setting that also reflects the window resolution. That's actually how it works in a lot of modern games, although you do need to account for aspect scaling.

It already is there, exactly in that menu.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Sgt. Shivers » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:46 pm

Just wondering, why can't the screen be scaled with the options menu anymore? Is there something stopping the window being set for size with the new system or is it just temporarily being taken away while the resolutions are put back in?
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Dynamo » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:46 pm

As Eric and Sgt. Shivers pointed out, the problem here seems to be a PR one in nature. Several solutions to avoid this have been proposed and this is not the first time such controversial updates are done out of the blue.

The way I see it, this very thread was opened by Major Cooke who is neither a mod nor a dev. Now, obviously there's nothing wrong with that, but it means the discussion got started by someone who is obviously not in full knowledge of the dev team perspective due to not being a dev (at least from my knowledge). Meanwhile for hours there was virtually no official zdoom team stance on this whole issue, it was like radio static, which naturally made people jump to conclusions, as it always happens and as it has happened in the past.

I think, for the future (considering this issue seems to be reaching a compromise of sorts despite the heated tone here), I think it's important to keep in mind that if you want people to accept a feature it's not a bad idea to adverstise it well beforehand. Radio silence is not a good way to get people to approve changes. I think this will make life easier for everyone in the community and spare us all many headaches in the future. Whilst obviously this cannot be done for every single feature that gets removed or added (GZDoom is an extremely complex engine after all), surely major features like this being removed would fall into "things worth informing others about", I think.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby iSpook » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:47 pm

Rachael wrote:Stuff

Where did I say that you lot aren't allowed to make mistakes? or that you can't make changes? I never said that. what I DID say that "Hey, maybe you guys should TALK such changes out with the community, before you go ahead and make said changes, instead of doing it and then expecting us to understand afterward." You know, something that should probably be done when you're working on something a lot of people use regularly.

And maybe you should use this as a lesson for future consideration of what I said. Thanks.

Graf Zahl wrote:
TerminusEst13 wrote:If anything, this is harsher than anything anyone has said.


Maybe, maybe not. But iSpook's posts certainly warranted that response.

No. No it didn't. You should've known better than to do that because that was rude as hell. Yeah, I don't have enough knowledge to "Fork my own version" but it was just a suggestion and only that. If you don't like it? Sure, fine. but telling me it was warranted is kinda rude.
Last edited by iSpook on Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby edward850 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:48 pm

Rachael wrote:
edward850 wrote:Then why not make the scaling system the resolution options? It would clear up a lot of confusion for a start as this thread seems to be from the result of people unable to change their display output, they probably don't care what the system-resolution is as long as the frame buffer does what they want, and it'll still do what you intend. The display size remains the same but the user can change their resolution to the desired setting that also reflects the window resolution. That's actually how it works in a lot of modern games, although you do need to account for aspect scaling.

It already is there, exactly in that menu.

No, not as a separate scale setting, as the actual resolution options themselves. "Where's my resolutions?" is not a question the user should ever need to ask. instead of making them set the display mode, however, they set the scale.
Last edited by edward850 on Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby DrPyspy » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:51 pm

Personally, I liked the options for setting the window size because most of the options allowed the HUD graphics to scale nicely. I imagine it would be somewhat tedious to get the window size to a neat resolution, considering that without the aid of a third party application, the window would probably end up at some odd resolution (for example, 1283x717 as opposed to 1280x720.) I often use a smaller, even window to test out projects while I watch a video or have a reference document placed to the side. I also use smaller window sizes when I'm playing through with some friends and need to read through chat on the side, be it Discord or a stream chat.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:53 pm

DrPyspy wrote:the window would probably end up at some odd resolution (for example, 1283x717 as opposed to 1280x720.)


So? Would that matter in any way that you to got 3 horizontal pixels more and 3 vertical pixels less? If you do not like the menu layout, just drag a bit more until it suits your needs.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Rachael » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:54 pm

Dynamo wrote:As Eric and Sgt. Shivers pointed out, the problem here seems to be a PR one in nature. Several solutions to avoid this have been proposed and this is not the first time such controversial updates are done out of the blue.

The way I see it, this very thread was opened by Major Cooke who is neither a mod nor a dev. Now, obviously there's nothing wrong with that, but it means the discussion got started by someone who is obviously not in full knowledge of the dev team perspective due to not being a dev (at least from my knowledge). Meanwhile for hours there was virtually no official zdoom team stance on this whole issue, it was like radio static, which naturally made people jump to conclusions, as it always happens and as it has happened in the past.

I think, for the future (considering this issue seems to be reaching a compromise of sorts despite the heated tone here), I think it's important to keep in mind that if you want people to accept a feature it's not a bad idea to adverstise it well beforehand. Radio silence is not a good way to get people to approve changes. I think this will make life easier for everyone in the community and spare us all many headaches in the future. Whilst obviously this cannot be done for every single feature that gets removed or added (GZDoom is an extremely complex engine after all), surely major features like this being removed would fall into "things worth informing others about", I think.

In concept I would agree with you, but I will say again what I've said before: This feature really wasn't considered that major. We didn't think that many people used it anymore, what with the modernization of LCD screens and such (and anything but native resolution looking like utter shite anyhow).

iSpook wrote:what I DID say that "Hey, maybe you guys should TALK such changes out with the community, before you go ahead and make said changes, instead of doing it and then expecting us to understand afterward." You know, something that should probably be done when you're working on something a lot of people use regularly.

And I am going to play devil's advocate here, and say: That should not be necessary. If you disagree with a change, it's fine to speak up about it, but if we had to clear every minor change to the engine with the community, nothing would EVER get done. So it really comes down to: Either you love it, or you fork it. (Good thing the GPL encourages that) That's not to be completely apathetic about it, it's just that we need freedom to move around here, too, on our end.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Hege Cactus » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:55 pm

Dynamo wrote:As Eric and Sgt. Shivers pointed out, the problem here seems to be a PR one in nature. Several solutions to avoid this have been proposed and this is not the first time such controversial updates are done out of the blue.

The way I see it, this very thread was opened by Major Cooke who is neither a mod nor a dev. Now, obviously there's nothing wrong with that, but it means the discussion got started by someone who is obviously not in full knowledge of the dev team perspective due to not being a dev (at least from my knowledge). Meanwhile for hours there was virtually no official zdoom team stance on this whole issue, it was like radio static, which naturally made people jump to conclusions, as it always happens and as it has happened in the past.

I think, for the future (considering this issue seems to be reaching a compromise of sorts despite the heated tone here), I think it's important to keep in mind that if you want people to accept a feature it's not a bad idea to adverstise it well beforehand. Radio silence is not a good way to get people to approve changes. I think this will make life easier for everyone in the community and spare us all many headaches in the future. Whilst obviously this cannot be done for every single feature that gets removed or added (GZDoom is an extremely complex engine after all), surely major features like this being removed would fall into "things worth informing others about", I think.


I kinda have to agree with this here
In my earlier post I was literally just confused so all I could say was why it felt worrying, but now that the thing has been opened up bit better, its actually less alarming.
But with it just coming out like that snap and with very little explanation, it was really like "wait what?"

If it was opened up from the beginning this reaction probably wouldn't have happened.


also when it comes to the tone of discussion, I think it would be nice from all sides to not assume the tone the written text to be automatically hostile or mocking, which seems to be too common nowadays.
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Re: "Where's my resolutions?" Read here!

Postby Graf Zahl » Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:00 pm

Dynamo wrote:As Eric and Sgt. Shivers pointed out, the problem here seems to be a PR one in nature. Several solutions to avoid this have been proposed and this is not the first time such controversial updates are done out of the blue.


The real problem here is that the entire shitstorm is based on a devbuild where all those changes just got merged in! As it often happens with such sweeping changes, they need some reworking once feedback comes in.

This entire thread was totally misguided, and MC deserves to be slapped with a wet fish in the face as punishment for it. :twisted: Mentioning that idiotic screen size setting tool was the dumbest thing he could possibly have done.
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