lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Rachael » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:25 am

Xaser wrote:If you have any evidence/reasoning on why it's "horrible policy" aside from what's been said, please share it. We're probably at the "agree to disagree" point by now, but I feel as if I'm missing some piece of the picture because the situation still seems pretty clear-cut to me (i.e. "this mod is a special exception" for all the reasons I've stated previously).

I am not going to sea-lion this with you. I have stated my reasons and they should be reason enough. You're free to disagree with me on those reasons but they are not basis for a further argument on this topic.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Xaser » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:34 am

C'mon -- you know me better than that. I'm not in the business of feigning civility -- if I really meant something else, I'd have been a blunt jerk about it. :P

Taking this to PM though, so it doesn't litter this thread. I've said all I have to say anyway, I think.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Rachael » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:40 am

And I have said all I need to on this topic as well. And the fact that GZDoom crashes on one of the levels even furthers my case that this practice should never be applied in any situation because that crash needs to be investigated, and when things like that happen source port authors should not need to recompile ACS scripts just to investigate it. I am sorry, but exception in this case is simply no-go.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Jul 24, 2017 9:46 am

Xaser wrote:I'm obviously concerned about (read: oppose) the idea of introducing some sort of forum policy in response to this, but more alarming is the notion of "stigmatize [modders] as losers" as a serious suggestion. I don't think it's in anyone's best interests to foster a toxic community as a means for policing mods. It's not surprising hearing that coming from the poster in question, mind you; I just hope nobody else is taking that particular suggestion seriously.


Don't take every word literally. And ask yourself: What's more toxic? Users making mods that go out of their way to annoy their prospective users or clearly saying "We do not want this here!"
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby wildweasel » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:02 am

Graf Zahl wrote:or clearly saying "We do not want this here!"

Which, in this admin's opinion, should be accomplished by just saying it, not by instituting a harmful forum policy to bin the mod entirely.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby JPL » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:21 am

This is so clearly a one-off artsy mod, please treat it as such and not as some horseman of the modding apocalypse. It is in no way representative of practices other modders will want to adopt. It is clearly not intended to work with other mods. It uses intentionally broken behavior for aesthetic effect. This happens all the time in scenes like ROM hacking.
Please chill and let this person release their cool weird thing and define compatibility however they want. The impact on GZDoom and its community will be nil, I guarantee.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby TerminusEst13 » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:29 am

Graf Zahl wrote:Don't take every word literally. And ask yourself: What's more toxic? Users making mods that go out of their way to annoy their prospective users or clearly saying "We do not want this here!"


You don't say "We don't want this here".
You barred off the options menu from being modified because you didn't like what people were doing with it. And then called people who had no clue they were doing it wrong idiots and morons.
Trying to start a forum policy against users that do stuff with the engine you don't like would be the start of an extremely slippery slope with an extremely nasty bottom.

This is just a silly aesthetics mod. It doesn't work as needed in the newest version, and I'm sure the devs have no desire to make things work, so there's no reason to change things so that it works outside of a specific version.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Rachael » Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 am

TerminusEst13 wrote:This is just a silly aesthetics mod. It doesn't work as needed in the newest version, and I'm sure the devs have no desire to make things work, so there's no reason to change things so that it works outside of a specific version.

No one's asking to change anything except the "ZDoom detector" script which blocks even playing the mod at all.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Breezeep » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:37 am

This is literally a harmless aesthetic level set. I would really appreciate if the staff here would just stop telling people how they should mod.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby wildweasel » Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:46 am

Breezeep wrote:This is literally a harmless aesthetic level set. I would really appreciate if the staff here would just stop telling people how they should mod.

Alright, well, I think at this point we've all stated our positions, so unless anybody else has feedback for the level itself, the rest of the discussion can be taken elsewhere.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby anotak » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:06 pm

ok.

nice to know that the lead dev of a source port thinks i'm a retarded loser. i'm clearly not welcome here. sorry for just wanting to share something i worked hard on.
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Re: lilith.pk3 - release candidate 1

Postby Rachael » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:26 pm

Regardless of my own involvement in this, I think I can unbiasedly say that this topic is not going to end well if it remains unlocked. I am sorry, but I have to put this in the hall. It's brought out the worst in a lot of us, and it cannot continue like this.

Graf - that previous post above mine is exactly why your insults have NO place here. That shit needs to stop. Like - yesterday. It's fine to have an opinion, but expressing it in such a disdainful manner only causes problems, and this shit gets worse every time. We're not going to defend you doing that - we never condoned it from other users, we won't condone it from you.

@ Everyone else - The same applies to you all. Stirring up Graf and pissing him off for the fuck of it does NOTHING productive. There are a few of you who are involved in this mess who should be ashamed of yourselves - some of you didn't even post here but you know who you are, none the less. Last thing we need is Graf doing something like MaxEd did - if you think that sounds funny, it has very real consequences - you thought it was hard getting features before? Wait until the main developer is gone.

This is a very shameful thread.
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