"Oh wait, you're a girl?"

[Tapwave]

I've gotten my fair share of shitty treatment for being trans in many places. It's either the "you're not really a girl stop faking" reaction or the "you're a disgusting monster" one, sometimes both at once.

If that makes you feel any better, I'm quite happy that my current generation, at least in Europe, is fairly tolerant about transsexuality. One of my friends actually came out of the closet to me about it, and while I don't agree with their positions on many ideas, I'm perfectly fine with how they wish to be and be considered, and as long as it hurts nobody or themselves, it's alright.

However, there is still a rampant sort of xenophobia as soon as you start with people over the age of 30 or so, but I guess it's being old fashioned by now.

[xenoxols]

Whenever I see arguments with people based on their gender I tend to just not read them. On a separate note, none of my female friends play video games.

[Tapwave]

Using someone's gender like some sort of pejorative compound to your insult is idiotic anyway. Usually it's a very male thing, but i've seen it tossed from the other side of the spectrum, although rarely. It's pretty much the basest form of lack of creativity you can come up with.

[cambertian]

I may be a heavily-bearded male, and a fan of the gory, testosterone-filled game that is Doom, but I am definitely not a fan of masculinity. It breeds a lot of anger, ignorance and irrationality, and as an individual who loves the scientific method (albeit maybe a slightly bastardized version,) I cannot condone it. I try to treat everyone with as much respect and compassion as humanly possible... And no, it's not because I want to get in bed with anyone. I just want to be a decent goddamn human being.

I find myself empathizing with your struggles, as I too have been the butt of the joke in a highly toxic community. (Not this one, of course.) I wish you well on your pursuits, and hope that you stand strong against those trying to tear you down.

[Ravick]

Trolls will be trolls.

That's all I can say.

People tend to have wrong/harmful behavior when they are sure they wont suffer any punishment. It goes from teenager Internet chauvinism to political corruption. IMO, only a firm oversight (or moderating) guarantees a healthy social environment.
Maybe it's a problem of education, or perhaps human nature to advance on who "appears" to be more vulnerable. I dunno...

___

Well, maybe I have nothing to contribute to this discussion, but I'd like to say that the fact of it existing here, in a serious mood, with no "She mad" posts, is an evidence of the health of this forum's community.

[Rachael]

Maybe it's a problem of education, or perhaps human nature to advance on who "appears" to be more vulnerable. I dunno...

It's domination. That's a survival instinct.

On a primal level, humans are pre-disposed to see others as inferior. Unfortunately, logic gets in the way of this so we need "reasons" to see others as inferior, even if they are only minor justifications (or as the "hater" would see it as one).

It's a competitive instinct, and in nature it was to ensure survival of the fittest. Anyone who has some sort of advantage over you naturally incites fear and anger - part of learning to be an adult is learning to control these emotions, realize that little differences do not matter, and to accept people for who they are and not as a threat (when really, they aren't much of a threat to begin with anyway) - or finding some way to deal with it that is not harmful to yourself or anyone else.

Homophobia, jealousy, greed, internet trolling, all root from this single instinct. Wars are often started over it, too, though the perpetrators will never admit it.

This instinct exists fully in both genders, but men are often more encouraged to play it out - especially in fear of appearing "vulnerable" allowing others to take advantage of them. (A lot of boys get bullied in school for being too "girly.")

[Ravick]

You made me remember a book I did read several years ago, called "The medusa and the snail", by Lewis Thomas, a biologist. Among many other interesting things, he tells about Obbo, an ape (or monkey, I rly can't remember the species right now) who was introduced in a new group of apes. He was accepted in the group, but, as he was new and had no social hierarchy status yet, he became an outcast, a "pariah". Well, what he started doing in the following days was beating the weakest ape of the group, who the author called "the village's idiot". I mean, he started bashing an ape that was even more an outcast them he was. As the days went by, other strong apes started to follow and help Obbo each time he started to bash the weakest ape. Then, because of that, Obbo got a respected place in the group hierarchy.
I guess we have this behavior deep inside our mind/instincts until today.

[JimpArgon]

Why are you bringing up feminist/social justice talking points? Nobody gives a shit weather you are a man or a woman online. Someone said mean things to you because you choose to bring up that you are a woman/gay/black/trans/otherkin/midget/white/attack helicopter? Who cares?

Just so you know that MEN receive just as much shit posting, flames, personal attacks. Its all on how you present yourself. This is not an "boys club" as you are trying to make it out to be, but bringing up shit that does not matter I.E. Race, SEX, religion in a fucking gaming community.... Its almost like you are wanting someone to say something about whatever just so you can cry out that you are being singled out/picked on/ whatever.

Trolls will be trolls. If someone posts something "sexist" or "racist" report it like normal people do and let admins/mods sort em out. No need to play the victim card and act like being a woman is so terrible online. This thread is like a Salon article.

[Shadelight]

I knew a post like this would come up eventually in this thread. Sigh.

Why are you bringing up feminist/social justice talking points? Nobody gives a shit weather you are a man or a woman online. Someone said mean things to you because you choose to bring up that you are a woman/gay/black/trans/otherkin/midget/white/attack helicopter? Who cares?

A lot of people seem to really want to believe this for some reason, but it just isn't true especially from some of the things I've seen. There are most certainly people or trolls who could give a shit what you are and ruin people because of it. You're doing that right now to be honest. especially with your "feminist/social justice" talking points bullshit. You talk about not caring, but you seem to really try and want to throw that back at anyone who actually does.

Trolls will be trolls. If someone posts something "sexist" or "racist" report it like normal people do and let admins/mods sort em out. No need to play the victim card and act like being a woman is so terrible online. This thread is like a Salon article.

and this post reads like a bunch of bullshit and I would rather you didn't bring this shit to this thread.

[Project Dark Fox]

I knew a post like this would come up eventually in this thread. Sigh.

Why are you bringing up feminist/social justice talking points? Nobody gives a shit weather you are a man or a woman online. Someone said mean things to you because you choose to bring up that you are a woman/gay/black/trans/otherkin/midget/white/attack helicopter? Who cares?

A lot of people seem to really want to believe this for some reason, but it just isn't true especially from some of the things I've seen. There are most certainly people or trolls who could give a shit what you are and ruin people because of it. You're doing that right now to be honest. especially with your "feminist/social justice" talking points bullshit. You talk about not caring, but you seem to really try and want to throw that back at anyone who actually does.

Trolls will be trolls. If someone posts something "sexist" or "racist" report it like normal people do and let admins/mods sort em out. No need to play the victim card and act like being a woman is so terrible online. This thread is like a Salon article.

and this post reads like a bunch of bullshit and I would rather you didn't bring this shit to this thread.

Can I block him, now?

[JimpArgon]

1.There are most certainly people or trolls who could give a shit what you are and ruin people because of it. You're doing that right now to be honest. 2. especially with your "feminist/social justice" talking points bullshit. You talk about not caring, but you seem to really try and want to throw that back at anyone who actually does.

1. I have not attacked OP, so don't try and equate what I have originally posted with arguing FACTS that everyone online White/Black/Trans/Furry/Gay/Battle Tanks. Receive shit online all the time from random users on different places like Facebook, Youtube, Random Forums.... Its not just women only receiving shitty treatment from "guys".
2. That is YOU'RE opinion, not a fact. Nothing I have posted is untrue. Even if you do not want to agree with it. The OP's posts ARE SJW / Feminist talking points and I feel much like religion, sexual preference, or racial background, & politics do not and should not have any place in a gaming forum.

Trolls will be trolls. If someone posts something "sexist" or "racist" report it like normal people do and let admins/mods sort em out. No need to play the victim card and act like being a woman is so terrible online. This thread is like a Salon article.

and this post reads like a bunch of bullshit and I would rather you didn't bring this shit to this thread.

heh, fair enough. I could have left the whole Salon thing out sure, but i'm only expressing my own opinion on the matter. And what was wrong about saying to report something like that and leaving it to the mods? I saw nothing in this thread saying I was not allowed to give my own opinion on the matter, and I didn't think I would be attacked for "wrong think" by a mod no less.

You want me out? Fine, I will not post in this thread anymore.

Can I block him, now?

You do not need permission for that you know. But I could care less if you decide to do so.

[Rachael]

1. I have not attacked OP, so don't try and equate what I have originally posted with arguing FACTS that everyone online White/Black/Trans/Furry/Gay/Battle Tanks. Receive shit online all the time from random users on different places like Facebook, Youtube, Random Forums.... Its not just women only receiving shitty treatment from "guys".
2. That is YOU'RE opinion, not a fact. Nothing I have posted is untrue. Even if you do not want to agree with it. The OP's posts ARE SJW / Feminist talking points and I feel much like religion, sexual preference, or racial background, & politics do not and should not have any place in a gaming forum.

You can't pretend that just because this is a gaming forum that these issues don't exist. In fact, these issues have a lot to do with gaming, itself, rather than just people in general, because it seems like gaming brings out the worst in people, sometimes. Who knows?

You're right that people of all different types get attacked, but this thread is specifically about women, which itself *IS* a huge issue, *especially* in gaming, even if you'd rather pretend it didn't exist.

From the way you post you make it sound like it doesn't matter to you what gender someone is - that's great. That's the kind of attitude we need more of. What this thread confronts, however, is that such an indifference does NOT exist at large, and that women ARE targeted for who they are, for whatever reason - and yes, this has to do with gaming, because again, this issue happens a lot in gaming. So it has every right to exist in a gaming forum. If you don't want to deal with it - it's simple, don't click this thread. Nobody's hurt by you pretending it doesn't exist.

[Shadelight]

Csonicgo also mentions trans people in the first post as well, so it isn't just about women. For everyone else reading this thread. Please don't try to bring the types of arguments JimpArgon was trying to make, what he did was basically bring anti-LGBT and anti-feminism arguments into this thread and try to spew them into one topic trying to antagonize people and ended up thinking there wouldn't be any consequences by continuing. You may continue as you were though.

[Rachael]

That's true - sorry I did not mean to make it sound like any one's issues were less significant than another's.

[Wiw]

For some reason, no one outside seems to be talking about the legions of men that we're up against, and the 18th Century barbarism that they actually represent. I'm typing on a keyboard that never could have been a product of their culture. No, it's the product of the culture of better men! Better men that actually deserve to live, unlike misogynists! I hate misogynists! I HATE THEM! I HATE THEM!