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Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Onslaught Six » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:04 pm

Finally got a chance to sit down and check this out.

First off--I must echo what most have said; the rifle doesn't seem to help out much other than annoy me when I run out of shells (because where there would normally be shotgunners, there are rifle zombies) and I have to also echo some of the odd texture choices.

In addition, there's just a handful of mapping "quirks" that are ticking a few of my boxes--the way the doors are inconsistently handled is a little offputting to me. Some of hem are inset into a wall, and some aren't. IMO, doors--at least standard doors--should always be "inset" to the wall and have a little bit of room in them. In addition, some of the doors will lead to a new area at a lower plane, and as a result the door will sometimes appear to "sink" into the floor on the opposite end--for example, the transition from the room with the nukeage hole to the courtyard has this. This looks bad and unrealistic--a door should (again, IMO) have the same height on both ends, and then you can change the height from there.

I don't like the "ceiling collapse" bit, because after a while, you can anticipate it and pick off all the enemies on the other side with the rifle before it ever happens. It's also too sudden and is pretty obviously responding to player action--it would be better if the ceiling collapsed earlier, when the player first enters the area, so they can observe it from a distance. I also question throwing a Hell Knight in this early to the player, especially with so many common enemies clustered around him like that, and without any better weapons than the Shotgun and weird rifle. A Hell Knight vs. Shotgun encounter can be a tense fight, in the right circumstances, but this one doesnt feel like that.

I understand the idea of the monsters reappearing in areas you've already visited, but it gets a little nuts in this one--I have no idea how I'm supposed to handle the Imp and Worm onslaught at the top of the elevator, especially with so few health powerups in the area. The one time I managed to make it through without dying, I had to step on the elevator to activate it, hop off, wait for an enemy to get on it, press the button, and then shoot them. Funneling enemies like that isn't fun--there's an entire room up there that could let the player maneuver, but instead I have to do the funnel thing, because the elevator has no room to maneuver.

If the "big reward" for jumping in the nukeage pit is a Blue Armour (even with the strangely-placed radsuit) then there shouldn't be one just sitting in the room above. In fact, any powerups shouldn't be sitting around like that unless there's a body next to it--it should be given a specific place, an alcove or a step or something.

A dozen and a half health bottles next to each other looks dumb. Is there a reason it's not a stimpack?

When you enter the room with the dead card-playing marines (which is a fine use of that texture and idea) your first instinct is to take out the zombies, but then immediately, Cacos and babies spring out of wall traps, for pretty much no reason. A better thing would be to link that to picking up the rocket launcher--less random, more deliberate. I have to say, however, that I think he level could have used one more small encounter (putting the Cacos in another room would do fine) and end the map there...

...because the whole end encounter feels like it got ripped out of another map entirely. It's not bad, it just feels like it should be the conclusion of an entirely different map, and feels pretty much like a slaughterfest instead of what the rest of the level felt like. There's also not nearly the amount of health I personally need to survive, but that's a skill/taste thing and a map's balance is hard to pick up on. (For good reference though, it can never hurt to have a few extra health and armour bonuses scattered around.) The freeze and teleport ending is jarring and doesn't make any sense--I didn't even know I had killed everything in the room to know that's what was going on.

It sounds really negative, but this is everything that ran through my head while playing it. Nothing particularly damning, but these are all things that make his (IMO) an obvious beginner's map as opposed to someone more advanced. Keep at it and take everyone's advice to heart (especially what I said about doors--I used to just do whatever, until I read a tutorial that put things in perspective, and ever since I saw how much better the results were, I've never looked back.) and keep working on new maps. I look forward to playing new ones from you!
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Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby idGamer » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:54 pm

I actually liked the rifle; it felt like a nice little addition to the arsenal of the level.
All in all, I enjoyed the level (especially for a first attempt at mapping) but there are a couple of problems I have with it:

First of all, the map lags very badly on my laptop. Maybe my laptop's just too old to be playing it (it's about four years old), but in the first section of the level the map would cause GZDoom to lag sporadically. I'm not sure what could of caused this.

I would also like to second other people's statements that the end felt kind of abrupt. Maybe if there was a key or something that you needed from the big arena at the end which could unlock an elevator at the start, it would feel a little more solid.

One last (and very minor) criticism is that the player is given both the rocket launcher and the Super Shotgun right at the end. It feels kind of strange to give the player two weapons right before the final battle, especially two with such similar power levels.
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Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Bitterman » Sat Dec 28, 2013 11:28 pm

Lag, really? My machine's a potato, so I'll run it with GZDoom and see if I have the same problem. Interesting.
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Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby idGamer » Sun Dec 29, 2013 9:44 am

Bitterman wrote:Lag, really? My machine's a potato, so I'll run it with GZDoom and see if I have the same problem. Interesting.

Yeah, I was equally surprised by it. :?
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Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Untitled » Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:55 am

Darn it, how do people keep having first maps be so good?!

I want to be a mapper, but then I try actually creating a map and dear lord I suck

It's never going to be available for release, but basically my first map was a box with some pillars in it. Not quality by any definition.

So nice job to those who have a natural hang for it; I have a natural un-hang for it.
Joined: 18 Apr 2013

Re: -

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri Dec 20, 2019 3:04 am

So, what is this? Why was this thread nuked without any reason given?
Well, now it goes to the garbage bin where it belongs.
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Graf Zahl
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Lead GZDoom Developer
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
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