-

Please do not mimic the behavior of the posts shown here.

Moderator: GZDoom Developers

-

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:19 am

-
Last edited by TheMightyHeracross on Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:46 am, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
TheMightyHeracross
...and remember: his silence is golden.
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Discord: TheMightyHeracross#1716
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Ferguson » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:36 am

Gave your map a quick run through, {at least until I got my face eaten} I liked it a lot, especially for a first map. Some surprises, which are always good. I am a poor mapper, I've got a good understanding of the tech aspects of it but am not much for design. There are some really talented people on this forum who will probably give you some pointers. Looking forward to future offerings from you.
User avatar
Ferguson
 
Joined: 21 Apr 2013

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:50 am

Oops. It appears the Hell Worm was using pain sounds as death sounds. Fixed.

Ferguson wrote:Gave your map a quick run through, {at least until I got my face eaten} I liked it a lot, especially for a first map. Some surprises, which are always good. I am a poor mapper, I've got a good understanding of the tech aspects of it but am not much for design. There are some really talented people on this forum who will probably give you some pointers. Looking forward to future offerings from you.


Thanks! By the "I got my face eaten", do you mean the Blood Demon in the outdoor grass area? Should I take him out and replace him with a standard Pinky?
EDIT: I had scrapped the Medical Backpack and Ammo Satchel, but forgot to take them out of the .wad. Fixed.
User avatar
TheMightyHeracross
...and remember: his silence is golden.
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Discord: TheMightyHeracross#1716
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:55 am

An interesting first map with some nice touches. The architecture definitely has the "first map" look to it in a few places but it's quite well put together and certainly better than a lot of first maps. There were some nice surprises and some good use of port features too. Ammo/health/enemy balance worked out quite well for me and the pace was pretty good. Certainly not "map of the year" or anything but definitely a good start.
User avatar
Enjay
Everyone is a moon, and has a dark side which he never shows to anybody. Twain
 
 
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Location: Scotland

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Ferguson » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:05 am

TheMightyHeracross wrote:Oops. It appears the Hell Worm was using pain sounds as death sounds. Fixed.

Ferguson wrote:Gave your map a quick run through, {at least until I got my face eaten} I liked it a lot, especially for a first map. Some surprises, which are always good. I am a poor mapper, I've got a good understanding of the tech aspects of it but am not much for design. There are some really talented people on this forum who will probably give you some pointers. Looking forward to future offerings from you.


Thanks! By the "I got my face eaten", do you mean the Blood Demon in the outdoor grass area? Should I take him out and replace him with a standard Pinky?
EDIT: I had scrapped the Medical Backpack and Ammo Satchel, but forgot to take them out of the .wad. Fixed.


Nah, I just wasn't paying attention. I die a great deal, as I suck so very bad. I'll get him next time!
User avatar
Ferguson
 
Joined: 21 Apr 2013

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:10 am

OK, gotcha.
Enjay wrote:An interesting first map with some nice touches. The architecture definitely has the "first map" look to it in a few places but it's quite well put together and certainly better than a lot of first maps. There were some nice surprises and some good use of port features too. Ammo/health/enemy balance worked out quite well for me and the pace was pretty good. Certainly not "map of the year" or anything but definitely a good start.

Thanks, that's great to hear from a well-known modder. :) Say, which spots had the "first map" look to them? I want to check those places out.
User avatar
TheMightyHeracross
...and remember: his silence is golden.
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Discord: TheMightyHeracross#1716
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby FireHusky » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:28 am

This map was really intriguing and fun. I liked the addition of extra enemies and weapons but my complaint is that it's too linear for me. Overall, it's fun and at least provides some challenge. An ambush event woke me up, I didn't expect that one coming. There's a lot of potential of you being a good mapper! My favorite eye-candy was the sky.
User avatar
FireHusky
I leave marks behind.
 
Joined: 25 Nov 2012

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Bitterman » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:39 am

It was certainly fun, the layout was pretty good and the balance was excellent. The only complaint I have is that on parts of the map you're out of bullets and shells, which forces you to use the Rifle, which felt pretty weak to me.
User avatar
Bitterman
Life of the party
 
Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Location: Stranded on Lh'owon

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:40 am

TheMightyHeracross wrote:Say, which spots had the "first map" look to them? I want to check those places out.


There were a few places where the textures (particularly the floors) had definite patterns not matched by the shape of the architecture and where textures such as DOORSTOP and DOORTRAK were stretched across wider expanses of wall than looks good. I also thought that a few if the sharp corners and angles looked awkward. There's nothing wrong with breaking away from the 90 degree grid (indeed, it's a good thing to do) but very sharp angles and awkward diagonals should be avoided, especially when they don't match in well the the material that the wall is meant to be made of (as indicated by its texture).

I think this little structure shows off all the above points:

Image

The FLAT20 ceiling and floor inside the lift thingy and the brick ceiling before it don't match well the with diagonal line of the edge, the sharp triangle doesn't make a lot of sense (though isn't necessarily bad) and the DOORTRAK looks bad.

On the whole, however, you did manage to avoid a lot of the typical new-mapper features.

Here's a few other things to consider:

If you are trying to make natural shapes (like a pool of blood) use a few more lines to make the shape smoother/rounder:

Image

When you have changes of texture and wall type (e.g. inside corridor wall and outside brick wall) - particularly big changes - find some way of adding a border, or support, or something to make the change seem more natural and realistic:

Image

If you want to match up two textures to look seamless, avoid cutting features in half:

Image
User avatar
Enjay
Everyone is a moon, and has a dark side which he never shows to anybody. Twain
 
 
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Location: Scotland

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby E.C.S » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:49 am

I'm not good with long posts, so I will make it short. It was fun to play, the enemies spiced things up, as mentioned before some parts of the map could use some work. Had to restart of at the end because I was running out of ammo but I wasn't a problem the second time.

Overall it was a nice first map. Makes me think I need to stop deleting every map I do before finishing them. As a last note:

Spoiler:
User avatar
E.C.S
Zdoom Forums Lurker Level 37
 
Joined: 17 May 2011
Location: Right behind you...

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:10 pm

Thanks for all of the positive comments! I'm glad you guys thought well of my first map. :)
Enjay, I'm currently working on those issues. Thanks for pointing those out. I'll try fixing the ammo issues for E.C.S and Bitterman.
Not too sure there's much I can do about the linear issue here without reworking the whole map, FireHusky, but I have taken that into account for when I try to map once more. Thanks!
User avatar
TheMightyHeracross
...and remember: his silence is golden.
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Discord: TheMightyHeracross#1716
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Jimmy » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:57 pm

I'm sorry, this really wasn't up my street at all.

The map itself was okay for a first attempt, although to be quite frank with you, you should try and refrain from releasing your first ever mapping venture(s) and try your best to get as competent in the practice as possible before you start showcasing it to others. It helps you make a good first impression, and also shows off your mapping style in a more solid form - whereas with your first try, your style is still gestating and the results are oftentimes messy.

Design-wise, I can't really say the map is all that great. Lots of jagged, non-orthogonal architecture that was kind of jarring - a lot of which seemed more fitting for a cave than a UAC facility. Texture usage was a bit odd, too. The final room features green marble walls, a brown rock floor, and grey tech cliff edges. It's rather hodge-podgy and you'd do well to try out a more constricted texture palette before stretching out any further - there's plenty of stock Doom 2 textures you could use to make the map look a whole bunch nicer.

Speaking of the final room - that ending was kind of underwhelming. In order to maximize the use of the rooms in your map, you should make the player revisit them, as many times as possible. Make him walk back to the starting room, rather than just teleporting him there once all the monsters in an arbitrary room are dead.

You'll also need to work on your thing placement. You bunch your monsters together in one isolated spot in your rooms rather than spreading them out to create interesting gameplay scenarios - apart from the final room, I suppose.

Finally, I'm sorry, but the map really isn't helped by the new resources.

- The rifle is a weak weapon which you have to button mash to keep using. Hardly worth using at all, really.
- The supershotgun now feels awkward to use. Why does it have a half-second delay at the end of its firing sequence? It's been changed in no other way.
- I really disliked the worm monster's constantly damaging attack. At least use the PoisonDamage property so I can tell how long the damage is going to last.
- Baby cacos... ehh. I can't take them seriously.
- The sky looks awful. Use the properly grey one from Hexen, it would look so much better.

Props for using Sadness, though. Great song, that. :)

Sorry if I seem harsh, I'm not trying to get you down, honestly - I see potential in your keenness to learn and accept criticism. The map does suffer from my-first-map syndrome quite badly is all. Just keep mapping, analyze the trends of successful mappers, and keep the gameplay and layout of the map at the forefront - and I'm sure you'll get better.

Spoiler:
Jimmy
I picked a fine day to be lactose intolerant
 
 
 
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Location: Perth, WA
Twitch ID: JimmySquared

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby TheMightyHeracross » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:32 pm

Thanks for your honesty, Jimmy. I never expect to please everyone, especially with a newbie project.
The link has been updated with some fixes Enjay mentioned, buffed the rifle, and took away that edited SSG. Not going to do much else with this project, firstly because I don't see a point in constantly updating a single-map newbie map, and secondly because I want to look back at this when (and if) I get better and release good maps, to see how much I've progressed. Thanks to everyone for their comments. :)
EDIT: Maxed was left out of the Special Thanks?! :o He's added.
User avatar
TheMightyHeracross
...and remember: his silence is golden.
 
Joined: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Discord: TheMightyHeracross#1716
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby kevansevans » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:53 pm

This was pretty fun, few discrepancies here and there, but nothing that hasn't already been pointed out. I like the music you've put in.

Though I didn't like how it ended, when it froze like that I panicked thinking my mouse was broken, then relaxed when i saw it teleported me... back to the start? Regardless, there's most likely more you want to add, keep it up! :D
User avatar
kevansevans
Disciple of the Great God Imp
Spotlight Team
 
Joined: 05 Oct 2010

Re: The Fallen Base- My first map

Postby Ed the Bat » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:21 pm

I just now tried this out, so I already understand that a couple of things may have changed since the reviews others have put forth. Now, I'm not a mapper, so I'm sorry to say that I can't offer much in the way of suggestions or constructive remarks on what would be done differently, and how. But since you're looking for input, I guess I can leave a few opinions.

First, in terms of technical aspects, I'm very happy to see that KEYCONF was not abused like so many projects still being released today, and that newer methods for playerclass and weaponslot were chosen. Also, while on the subject of technical, I saw that the rifle doesn't put itself away when out of ammo, like vanilla weapons. A_CheckReload will fix that. Still, I like the rifle, as it looks to hit four times as hard as a pistol round, and fires much faster, making it a great alternative to the shotgun.

Now, concerning the map itself, I felt it was adequate, though not particularly impressive or groundbreaking. It was competently made, but nothing I felt like I hadn't seen before. The layout of the map was easy enough to play, but it felt... unnatural (which I know is a strange word to use in regards to a decidedly man-made structure like a techbase). The layouts seemed to oppose what an actual architect would realistically plan for a building. Doom and Doom II also suffered greatly from this problem, as the layouts were designed with gameplay in mind, at the expense of any realism or believability. Speaking of unnatural, the tech lamps in the beginning of the map had unusually-shaped lighting around them. Those really stood out to me.

The final area of the map, I felt, had the best design. It felt a bit less unnatural/more believable than the rest, and it played comfortably. The ending was rather abrupt, though, and while I do favor scripted events, it didn't feel like it made a lot of sense, as it is.
Spoiler:


Also, I found the music very rough on the ears. Lots of screeching; had to turn the sound down. But, that one's just an opinion.

Again, I'm sorry I can't offer much more than opinions; I don't have the skillset to provide anything really constructive for map-making.
User avatar
Ed the Bat
I'm tired. I want to go home.
 
Joined: 03 May 2012
Location: Maryland, US

Next

Return to Hall of Unpleasantness

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests