GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby Enjay » Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:54 am

If you try one of the dev builds, OpenGL ES is available through the display options.

https://devbuilds.drdteam.org/gzdoom/
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby ReX » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:05 pm

Enjay wrote:If you try one of the dev builds, OpenGL ES is available through the display options.

I tried 4.6.0b as well as 4.6.1 GLES and GZDooM doesn't start.

Yhis thread specifically mentions OpenGLES 2.0, which got me wondering what the difference is between that and OpenGL. I came across this article, which talks about "embedded systems" being typically designed for smartphones, tablets, etc. On the face of it, that would explain why I am unable to run GZDooM GLES on my computer. But then how to explain this post, which references an "old potato laptop (10 years old)".
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:28 pm

GLES2 is a subset of regular OpenGL 2.x with a few minor differences. But like I said, with hardware this old and long abandoned, don't expect much. If LZDoom does not work on it, nothing will.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Sep 22, 2021 4:54 am

I just read your post over here: viewtopic.php?p=1200611#p1200611

With all that, I'm afraid, but it looks you got yourself into a corner with your OS update you cannot get out anymore. The sad and simple fact is that the HD3000 has no driver support for Windows 10 anymore, so it was just luck that you were able to get anything running at all before.
Seriously, if you cannot retire that system for financial reasons it may actually be best to nuke your OS entirely and install Windows 8.1 or some Linux distro on it as that won't try to shoot it to shit again. With Linux you'd even get official GL 3.3 support again.
Aside from that, seeing the trouble you have to go through to keep it alive, is there really no chance to get a used laptop with somewhat better hardware from eBay? Because with this one the fight will endlessly continue and ultimately cost you more than just money.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby ReX » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:38 am

Graf Zahl wrote:With all that, I'm afraid, but it looks you got yourself into a corner with your OS update you cannot get out anymore.

Yes, that became apparent as soon as I "upgraded" from Win 7 to Win 10.

Graf Zahl wrote:Seriously, if you cannot retire that system for financial reasons it may actually be best to nuke your OS entirely and install Windows 8.1 or some Linux distro on it as that won't try to shoot it to shit again. With Linux you'd even get official GL 3.3 support again.

Yes, I have been contemplating a dual-install with Linux. I just need to get educated on how to do it properly, so that I don't make this computer completely useless.

Graf Zahl wrote:Aside from that, seeing the trouble you have to go through to keep it alive, is there really no chance to get a used laptop with somewhat better hardware from eBay? Because with this one the fight will endlessly continue and ultimately cost you more than just money.

I have been considering 2 options. First, I was thinking of asking a computer build/repair store to completely swap out my system board with a more modern one. This would likely require changing the power supply too. Let's see how costly this is. Second, I was thinking of asking the same guy at the computer store to build me a mid-level rig with relatively modern hardware. Again, let's see what it costs. If this is affordable, it might be a better option than buying a used computer from an unknown seller.

Meanwhile, in the endless yo-yoing that I am undergoing because of Microsoft and intel, I have yet another update. This time it's a happy one. After messing with trying to run various versions of GZDooM that support GLES and not succeeding, I decided to try something different, as follows:

1. I reverted to the version of the intel graphics drivers that support Win 8.1
2. When asked if I want to restart my computer to make the changes effective, I selected "not now"
3. At this point I tried drfrag's custom version of GZDooM that he developed for me in March 2020, and which worked fine since then (except for the starts and stops created by Win 10 updates). GZDooM did not run
4. I went into the computer's Settings and paused updates for a week
5. I restarted my computer to make the rollback to the older version of the graphics drivers effective
6. I tried running drfrag's custom version. Et voila! It ran fine and all is well with the world again
7. GZDooM with GLES support (v4.7.0) still does not work
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby Rachael » Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:06 am

While the computer is in a working state - one thing you can try is copy all the *ig4icd*.dll files directly into the GZDoom folder (while it is working). Hopefully this will mean if it tries a driver update again, your system won't get completely hosed. It's not guaranteed to work but it's a trick you can try. (Similar things have been successfully done with AMD's ICD drivers when they break shit - which is often).

As you might guess, opengl32.dll (which GZDoom loads) is nothing more than a wrapper file that looks up your installed drivers and calls the ICD driver instead. Once the ICD is loaded it just passes all the OpenGL commands to it, directly. Vulkan works the same way.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby ReX » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:20 am

Rachael wrote:While the computer is in a working state - one thing you can try is copy all the *ig4icd*.dll files directly into the GZDoom folder (while it is working).

I tried what you suggested and GZDooM doesn't start. I get a different error this time: "R_OPENGL: Unable to create an OpenGL render context". When I delete the file GZDooM goes back to starting (and running) just fine.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby Rachael » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:41 am

Ah then that means it's pulling in additional .dll files that need to be in the same folder, also. Unfortunately, not having the affected hardware myself, it's impossible for me to know what files would be needed.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby ReX » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:45 am

Rachael wrote:Unfortunately, not having the affected hardware myself, it's impossible for me to know what files would be needed.

I'll continue to use my workaround for now. As an absolute last resort I'll periodically prevent Win 10 updates from installing on my computer.

Thanks for your suggestions, nonetheless.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby Enjay » Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:51 am

If I recall correctly, the method you have used to prevent updates will eventually get to a point where Windows says, nope, you've delayed enough - we're doing this.

However, I also think that there is a workaround. If you go into your settings (I forget exactly where) and tell Windows that you are on a metered connection, and then double check in the updates preferences that you are set to not allow updates over a metered connection, then Windows will not update.

At least, that used to be a suggested way of doing it. I've never actually done it myself.

Of course, compulsory health warning: preventing your computer from updating can mean you missing out on important security updates.
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby ReX » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:07 pm

Enjay wrote:If I recall correctly, the method you have used to prevent updates will eventually get to a point where Windows says, nope, you've delayed enough - we're doing this.

Yes, the maximum is 35 days.

Enjay wrote:However, I also think that there is a workaround. If you go into your settings (I forget exactly where) and tell Windows that you are on a metered connection, and then double check in the updates preferences that you are set to not allow updates over a metered connection, then Windows will not update.

I did see the reference to a "metered connection", but I ignored it.

Enjay wrote:Of course, compulsory health warning: preventing your computer from updating can mean you missing out on important security updates.

Yes, I agree. However, my workaround allows me to get the security updates while also permitting a roll back of the stinkin' intel drivers. It's just a couple of extra steps to suspend the Win 10 updates after I've rolled back the drivers. For example, I currently have updates postponed for a week. I will reset that to allow update checks to become current, and install the updates when they become available (without these updates interfering with my ability to use GZDooM).
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Re: GZDooM Runs at Standstill Pace After Win 10 Update

Postby deus-ex » Mon Sep 27, 2021 3:42 pm

ReX wrote:
Enjay wrote:If I recall correctly, the method you have used to prevent updates will eventually get to a point where Windows says, nope, you've delayed enough - we're doing this.

Yes, the maximum is 35 days.

Windows 10 updating drivers without user consent is quite annoying. Many years ago, I have been wandering through this hell many times myself. With the release of Windows 10 build 1607 in August 2016, an option to disable automatic driver updates was added. No strings attached, no expiry date.

By adding the following key and value to your Windows registry automatic driver updates are disabled once and for all:

Code: Select allExpand view
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate"=dword:00000001

Download the attached reg file, remove the filename extension .txt, and import it into your Window registry (press ENTER onto the reg file or use the context menu to execute it).

To reenable automatic driver updates either set the value of "ExcludeWUDriversInQualityUpdate" to 0 (dword:00000000) or delete the key from the registry.
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