Just need an advice.

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Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:35 pm

I tried to ask about QZDoom, some said try LZDoom, but LZDoom is an old GZDoom and no more. it has not even half of advantages of so fastly closed QZDoom branch. AND GZDoom i didn't like for it's new problems with voxel palete in softwqare. I want you to understand - i dont need old style GL ets. i need this QZDoom's one sofware renderer. and 1.3 version is enough for me in all, excepting problem with mirrors.
so - who can give an advice - where am i to search the code for mirrors in the source, or better i would like to know who developed QZDoom and if it's steel alive somewhere - whre is this magic locatiobn full of innovations. I see that nobody interested ghere in QZDoom, but i need this for my project, than was worked on too long to discontinue it now. I am even ready to try to fix that bug with mirrors by myself - that can't be too hard - those arer just wrong taken angles(variables). but where am i to start with it :lol: :roll:
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Joined: 20 May 2019
Operating System: Windows XP
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

Re: Just need an advice.

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:45 pm

QZDoom was nothing more than a testing branch of GZDoom, all its features are now included in GZDoom. Since moving it forward would mean to morph it into GZDoom proper it made little sense to offer the download anymore.

Regarding your glitch, what's your hardware specs? It looks like your graphics driver is having some problem here.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:59 pm

Graphic Driver? You Realy belive that, graph? i tried today my project on new gzdoom. on:
pentium dualcore e5700+AsusP5GC-MX/1333+Asus GTS250 512mb
and on pentium4 641@3.2GHz+P5GV-MX+GeForce 6302gb

but i remind - i used ONLY software renderer. the main advantage of qzdoom for me is it's wonderfull software renderer with dynamic lights. Yes, New GZDoom has it too, but has 2 problems on both systems:
1) problem with colors for voxels
2) too low frame rate in the same resolution using the same classic renderer. i can't explain why it so much slower, may be you know, and the problem with colors on voxels more looks like some newl kind of glitch - its ok in classc zdoom and it's ok in all software modes of QZDoom. i still think i will need to find somebody skilled at coding to help me to fiz QZDoom 1.3 soiurce code to get a final en gine for my mod. the second thing is that i want to force the useof software for it in future, i have now 2 ideas howto, but now it's not a timew to speak about that - i have a lot of vork to do before. but i need to know now, do i have to discontinue using dynlights (and plabn maps only using sector lighting and brightmaps burned into texturees, but it is a static lighting ,ethod still, or if probem with QZ is fixable, and i can get my own old and cool version with this small fix for that. that would be the best for me. Sorry for bad english. im from ua.
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Joined: 20 May 2019
Operating System: Windows XP
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

Re: Just need an advice.

Postby dpJudas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:04 pm

QZDoom was created by Rachael, initially based on GZDoom and my truecolor software renderer pull request to ZDoom. Since then all those changes have been merged back into GZDoom.

For you to conclude QZDoom runs better than GZDoom one of two things needs to be true: 1) either your ini files use different settings and there isn't actually any speed difference (try delete both ini files and start over for comparison), or 2) you are comparing an old version of QZDoom against a newer GZDoom.

I don't know if Rachael still got a branch/tag that you can use to checkout the 1.3 source code, but note that if you do use that version you're more or less on your own. I can't remember the technical details of that version of the renderer and don't want to learn them again. My latest software renderer related work can be found on the polybackend branch in the GZDoom repository.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:11 pm

i dont understand people with position "new is nice, old is not nice". If an old one version had nice performance with nice picture - why new versions of gz has no that performance with the same picture? the only problem of qz for me is wrong angle of objects and dynligfhts rendered in the mirror. i had no special settings, tried to delete inis, and set 1024x768 (no poligonal no truecolor) in both ports, then 800x600 in both qz and gz g3. no. gs has problems on both pentioum dual core and on pentium 4.
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Joined: 20 May 2019
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Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

Re: Just need an advice.

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:16 pm

Quote from the other thread:

I use windows XP, i can;t tell what problems did turned me away from modern versions of GZDoom, but probably somethin didn't work that nice.


Reading this I don't want to think any further. I believe your problem comes down to the removal of the Direct3D backend last year and for some reason OpenGL support on such an old and unsupported system is not cutting it.

You may like it or not, but XP support has been scrapped in GZDoom altogether by now. Your best bet would actually be LZDoom - if that doesn't work right I'd say your problems run MUCH deeper.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:26 pm

NICE idea was - to remove support for old windows for DOOM sourceport. good luck, but please dont close this topic maybe someone else have something to say. othervice i will have to meke my own clone of old unsupported port, learning of programming languages anyway will take more time but if someone one can say at least where am i to find the code in sources for the mirrors (dir/subdir/..file.ext) i will be glad. i think it even will be interesting to fix ,by myself for myself. and i don't requesrt anything more. just it.
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Joined: 20 May 2019
Operating System: Windows XP
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

Re: Just need an advice.

Postby dpJudas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:29 pm

GRAU wrote:i dont understand people with position "new is nice, old is not nice". If an old one version had nice performance with nice picture - why new versions of gz has no that performance with the same picture? the only problem of qz for me is wrong angle of objects and dynligfhts rendered in the mirror. i had no special settings, tried to delete inis, and set 1024x768 (no poligonal no truecolor) in both ports, then 800x600 in both qz and gz g3. no. gs has problems on both pentioum dual core and on pentium 4.

The drawers and backend of QZDoom/GZDoom has gone through many iterations since the first QZDoom release. There are technical reasons why that happened that does not allow us to go back. For example, one version of QZDoom relied heavily on llvm and that library turned out to be a nightmare to link up against.

Another change is that Direct3D was dropped, which at the time seemed not a big deal but we've since discovered OpenGL drivers perform significantly worse for the usage pattern of the software renderer.

Last there's the fact that the software renderer's performance is usually profiled on my computer, which is not using a Pentium 4. It used be an Intel i7 haswell, and now it is an AMD Threadripper 32C/64T CPU. Simply put, my CPU is over 32 times as powerful as your Pentium 4, so I might not notice if an inefficiency is introduced in a drawer. On my computer the bottleneck is elsewhere in the renderer at this point.

Long story short, your hardware is simply too old compared to mine. The operating system, Windows XP, is also too old for Microsoft, which means our future code changes might not even compile on a compiler for such a dated operating system. None of us are intentionally trying to make newer GZDoom run poorly on your computer, but that's inevitable consequence of the big changes to hardware since then. That said, the polybackend branch does try to address the Direct3D performance drop we introduced, so at least there it should improve a little bit when that one day gets merged into master.

As for the color problem with the voxels, I believe that's a bug and should be reported with a minimal test example pk3.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:38 pm

i don't plan to change my hardware, i don't plan to change operation system - like this stuff, i only want to know where in qzdoom the code for mirrors - all other things i will fix myself. this is an old game, i dont need to have more then 1 core for it. that is my position. i am not against modern systyems but i dont like modern software and usinbg an old pc helps me to optimize my own creations. i check performance on pentium m 1.4ghz, athlon 64 3800+(1core) 2.4ghz and on pentium 4 3.2ghz. in my opinion those are the maximum doom may need to run, even with voxels and lights. and qzdoom was something i liked, so i am planing to develop my own fixed version for stupid old fashioned peoplelike me ;)
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Joined: 20 May 2019
Operating System: Windows XP
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

Re: Just need an advice.

Postby dpJudas » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:42 pm

And I don't plan to spend my life coding for your hardware or dated operating systems, or look up things on the Internet for you. ;)

If you want the source code for QZDoom 1.3 you can probably find it in some archives section of the zdoom website. From there search for the word mirror in the codebase - that's about as much effort I'll give you, sorry.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:43 pm

GRAU wrote:i don't plan to change my hardware, i don't plan to change operation system - like this stuff,



See, here's the problem. You are using an unsupported OS and a somewhat unknown old build of a side branch to play, which is also by all accounts unsupported. This is code nobody here has been keeping track of.
In short: I surely can't give you any pointers because I simply don't know anymore.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Thu Jul 25, 2019 2:28 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:
GRAU wrote:i don't plan to change my hardware, i don't plan to change operation system - like this stuff,



See, here's the problem. You are using an unsupported OS and a somewhat unknown old build of a side branch to play, which is also by all accounts unsupported. This is code nobody here has been keeping track of.
In short: I surely can't give you any pointers because I simply don't know anymore.


i understood, thanks. ill wait, may be someone else can give an answer
GRAU
 
Joined: 20 May 2019
Operating System: Windows XP
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

Re: Just need an advice.

Postby Rachael » Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:31 pm

I tihnk I know what's happening here.

QZDoom defaulted to truecolor software rendering mode to start, since that it was its glowing feature at its inception.

LZDoom does not.

Well - GRAU - LZDoom *has* QZDoom's software renderer merged in. To use it, run LZDoom, open the console (~) and type the following:
Code: Select allExpand view
vid_renderer 0
vid_glswfb 0
swtruecolor 1


Then exit LZDoom and start it again.

That should put it in the same mode that QZDoom had, and it is a more up to date version of what you think is LZDoom but it is in fact a GZDoom fork (like QZDoom always was, anyhow).

Hopefully, this fixes your problem.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby drfrag » Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:40 am

He speaks a different language and doesn't understand most of what you've written. It's what in spanish we call "breams dialogue".
Also his attitude is not very positive i'd say and he doesn't realize how wrong he is.
Here goes my advice: upgrade your OS, most likely your modern cards drivers are not working properly on such an old OS. Don't use old versions. QZDoom won't compile on XP and i bet those bugs were fixed long ago.

About LZDoom already starts in software mode, only thing he'd need to do is change the renderer to software truecolor.
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Re: Just need an advice.

Postby GRAU » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:23 am

i know how to use google translate, that will help me if i have some problems with undertstanding you. i know enough to speak the way i write this message, and lots of tech terms in english. i understand all he and you wrote. but i may write with some syntax errors. About the truecolort - i did nbot design a custom palete for my project to go now to truecolor, and i don't plan to change os or hardware. i dont like 7 and 8. may be 10 but i dont believe it. it to often starts some strange processes using lots of cpu and hdd, without my suggestion. i name it - integrated spyware ;) i used 98 until i had a problem with finding drivers for new vga card. but i change hardware too rare, so i will bnot have such a problem a long time more. anyway i have zdoom. it's easier for me to disable all dynlight functionbs - i work on this mod a long time since 2010 or even longer, restarted a few times because of render issues, i used gl but one moment i understood - gl gives a loit of ways to cheat. saee - i make a horrorm sometimes it has amnesia-style locations and streching up gamma player can look too far in gl. and then i tried voxels. making them is sometring hardstyle but i loved the result i got. so i deceded to go software. i worked for zdoom, burning static light from torches and lamps to textures and using sector lights. but then one friend asked me to look at qzdoom. i didnt belkieve him when he said - it has dynlights in software. but tried. and liked it, QZ had a nice light processing in 256color mode - that was the thing i really liked because i sp[ett a few days to decide which colors i will need in palete for my project. i thinc thad doom-style paleted renderers has their own mystery. i knoew - may be none of you understood my feelings and wioll say im strange or brainless. thats you right. thanks for advices - ill try lzdoom tuecolor anyway, but last time i tried paleted one - i didn't see dynlights. may be i can switch em up som ewhere? otherwise it's easier to return to zdoom for me.
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Joined: 20 May 2019
Operating System: Windows XP
Graphics Processor: nVidia (Legacy GZDoom)

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