Client/Server netcode + dedicated server (split)

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Client/Server netcode + dedicated server (split)

Postby Mr.Rocket » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:32 pm

Hi,

Really old thread I know..

But I was curious as to if a program could be created maybe similar to chocolate doom's multiplayer launcher where any servers hosted could be visible perhaps to a virtual master server?
And sense Zdoom's netcode isn't client/server based, maybe there could be a work around this so at least a server could be visible and the Op could start the game once client(s) are ready'd up to launch a multiplayer game this way.
http://www.chocolate-doom.org/wiki/inde ... aiting.png

The idea is to connect to a separate hosted program, store the ip, port#, and then connect them all eg(4 clients or less) to a zdoom -netgame when ready.

Now if a program was created similar to the above? then in theory this same program could communicate on its own so that the program could display an awaited game in a game server list or browser something like doomseeker? eg the program is queried through the server browser instead of zdoom.

Now that I think of it, am I asking for a zdnet? if anyone remembers that? ~ heh it was used back when icq was popular.
Anyway, if such a program was made, maybe there could be an automatic setting when a number of clients have connected, the netgame starts, without a needed Op to click the start button.

Possible?/ideas?


Thanks
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby Monsterovich » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:58 am

Image

Edward's avatar actually shows how (Z)Doom multiplayer works.
Remember, client/server architecture has come since Quake 1, because Carmack realised that doom multiplayer sucks. The end.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby NeuralStunner » Sun Oct 12, 2014 5:25 pm

Mr.Rocket wrote: But I was curious as to if a program could be created maybe similar to chocolate doom's multiplayer launcher where any servers hosted could be visible perhaps to a virtual master server?
He hasn't really been advertising it much, but Edward850 has been working on a program called "ZDoom Online". As I understand it, ZDO will have a lobby system for hosting and joining games, and the program will handle the launching process. Essentially we'd get the simplicity of a server browser for P2P games.

Monsterovich wrote:[Words]
You're being excessively ignorant and not helping answer the question at all.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby edward850 » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:27 pm

NeuralStunner wrote:
Mr.Rocket wrote: But I was curious as to if a program could be created maybe similar to chocolate doom's multiplayer launcher where any servers hosted could be visible perhaps to a virtual master server?
"ZDoom Online"

Darn it, I knew someone would remember I'm supposed to be working on that. I need to stop fudging about with the account system and release a beta.

NeuralStunner wrote:
Monsterovich wrote:Edward's avatar actually shows how (Z)Doom multiplayer works.
Remember, client/server architecture has come since Quake 1, because Carmack realised that doom multiplayer sucks. The end.
You're being excessively ignorant and not helping answer the question at all.

It's especially ironic that he points out Quake, because that's actually Quake1's lag icon. ZDoom certainly doesn't work like Quake, so damned if I know what his point is if he's using it as an example of ZDoom being "laggy", despite it representing the very thing he used as a counterpoint. :V
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby Mr.Rocket » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:28 am

Hey,

That's totally good to hear man! ~ this statement is actually dipped in a bit of awesome sauce btw. :)
I'd be pretty excited to partake in a beta test when the time comes!
Heck I'd even contribute a donation if it would help speed the process.

I wouldn't go as far as saying Zdooms netcode is bad or really laggy, in fact I'v been playing DM with some friends for a few years in Zdoom exclusively with next to no lag, as long as it's a reliable connection and set to dup2 for 3 players. However most of the time the lag was pretty good with only 2 players when dup settings weren't needed. This however all ended when we had no good way of setting up or contact to ready up to connect at a set point in time.

If Edward850's Zdoom Online program is to have a lobby based system, that would make it that much easier to hook up and do some killing! ~ And I suppose I should mention this to Monsterovich: you must remember that wad authors tend to like to get in a netgame and take a look at each others levels while working on a port specific project, aside from play testing. ;)

@ Edward850, Is the idea of it to have other source engines like Prboom-plus, Gzdoom, and Chocolate Doom to be supported along side Zdoom in Zdoom Online?

Again, this is really good to hear and many others will be excited about it too.
Thanks for this Edward!

ps, is there another thread or forum for this topic elsewhere besides here? (feel free to pm) as this of course is a closed feature request in part of Zdoom, but at the time and in my search I had no where else to ask.

Thanks
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby edward850 » Mon Oct 13, 2014 1:56 am

Mr.Rocket wrote:Is the idea of it to have other source engines like Prboom-plus, Gzdoom, and Chocolate Doom to be supported along side Zdoom in Zdoom Online?

Oddly enough, a question I have never been asked about ZDO, which is strange because I have always wanted to answer it. :P

GZDoom uses the exact same networking base as ZDoom, so anything ZDO supports with ZDoom will also include GZDoom by design.
Chocolate Doom should be no problem and fits most of the design backend already, sans the networking lobby, so it's doable and I'll likely support it down the road, but of course isn't a priority.
Prboom-plus is the black sheep. By all means it supports multiplayer, but anything that isn't a LAN has horrible results, due to it being pretty much the same thing as Vanilla's multiplayer (likely the intention). However, that isn't really a reason not to, but isn't a priority for the same reason Chocolate Doom isn't either.

Mr.Rocket wrote:ps, is there another thread or forum for this topic elsewhere besides here? (feel free to pm) as this of course is a closed feature request in part of Zdoom, but at the time and in my search I had no where else to ask.

Well, there is the networking subforum, if that's what you mean.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby Mr.Rocket » Mon Oct 13, 2014 3:25 pm

Hey,

edward850 wrote:GZDoom uses the exact same networking base as ZDoom, so anything ZDO supports with ZDoom will also include GZDoom by design.
Chocolate Doom should be no problem and fits most of the design backend already, sans the networking lobby, so it's doable and I'll likely support it down the road, but of course isn't a priority.
Prboom-plus is the black sheep. By all means it supports multiplayer, but anything that isn't a LAN has horrible results, due to it being pretty much the same thing as Vanilla's multiplayer (likely the intention). However, that isn't really a reason not to, but isn't a priority for the same reason Chocolate Doom isn't either.

Ah, sweet!
I suppose if the pipe is big enough with a good upstream prboom and choco might be more feasible for internet games though, but I know what you mean. I'm not sure how far fraggle plans to go with chocolate dooms network system, but at least it has a master server of sorts and that's a bit of a step up from prboom. ~ however in this case it probably doesn't mean much on the side of mainly being a strictly LAN floor plan netcode as you said, like original doom. where's that ipx emulation? heh
But again good to hear you will support them at some point!

edward850 wrote:Well, there is the networking subforum, if that's what you mean.

For the most part yeah, although I guess I mean more specifically for the Zdoom Online project.

Thanks
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby edward850 » Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:13 am

Mr.Rocket wrote:I suppose if the pipe is big enough with a good upstream prboom and choco might be more feasible for internet games though, but I know what you mean.

Wrong limitation. As with ZDoom, the bandwidth requirements are almost absurdly small, especially since the orginal vanilla system was designed to run off 9600 baud serial.

The problem with PRBoom is that it can't compensate for the latency, so any and all inputs will be delayed as the netgame catches up. Chocolate Doom has a synchronized timer and ZDoom has player thinker prediction (and a different kind of optional synchronized timer), but PRBoom has nothing, making user control difficult.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server (split)

Postby Mr.Rocket » Tue Oct 14, 2014 4:22 pm

Ah okay, I see.. so unfortunately when the time comes to add support for prboom, it would mainly be for LAN use? ~ Which would fall in the same category as original Doom. I know you wouldn't go to the trouble of adding any sort of dial-up modem support heh.
Believe it or not, I actually have a few oldie yet forgiving lists of Rockwell type 14.4, 33.6 and 56k modem strings on some old cd's somewhere, haha.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server

Postby Gez » Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:20 pm

edward850 wrote:Prboom-plus is the black sheep. By all means it supports multiplayer, but

... but its author and maintainer doesn't.
entryway said:
do not use prboom-plus for multiplayer. it sucks.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server (split)

Postby edward850 » Fri Oct 17, 2014 8:04 pm

Supports it in the sense of it exists and you can run it. :P
Last edited by edward850 on Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server (split)

Postby Mr.Rocket » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:53 pm

I'm guessing the support would for the most part be strictly LAN based as like original Doom.
Maybe one day someone will come along and make an IPX emulation for such. ~ eg like Microsoft had back in the win95/98 days for Doom internet games and the like.
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Re: Client/Server netcode + dedicated server (split)

Postby Danfun64 » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:00 pm

Mr.Rocket wrote:Maybe one day someone will come along and make an IPX emulation for such.

There's DosBox's IPXNET, though it has never been ported to dos and/or win9x for use with real hardware...which is a pity especially since DosBox is slowly becoming more and more obsolete...
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