REAL Co-Oppers

Talk about multiplayer ZDoom games here.
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Postby Ultraviolet » Sun Aug 17, 2003 7:44 pm

Tenbrae DOES increase the complexity of the lighting, but the color scheme can't really be helped much in most situations. Quake was ugly because it was DULL.
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Postby Biff » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:09 am

Bio Hazard wrote:is the server still up? i cant see it on IDE :(

no coop for me :(
I'll put the coop server back up this evening. Also, I'll look at that list of wads you recommended for coop if I get a spare moment at work. Thanks for the comments.

Edit: Would you email me a few of those you think are best? mblakely@jpl.nasa.gov
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Postby Bio Hazard » Fri Aug 22, 2003 9:40 pm

so when does the server come back up?
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Postby Biff » Fri Aug 22, 2003 11:52 pm

Serving some dm tonight, so maybe Saturday.

Edit: Vrack2b used to work with zdaemon 0.99. Tried to host it coop this morning with zdaemon 1.04c and it's very unhappy, spews a number of error messages but server does not crash. Clients can connect but the stream of error messages ends in a boot-out. :( I even saw errors about "no camera...." and I don't remember any cameras in that wad.

There's plenty of unused sectors (invalid - no lines) in that wad it appears, maybe it's DeePsea to the rescue!

Anyhow, doom2.wad is back up for coop right now.
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Postby Ultraviolet » Sat Aug 23, 2003 10:36 pm

Biff: You're correct, Vrack 2 isn't even a ZDoom wad. I think, aside from its size and number of monsters, it is Vanilla compatible even.
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Postby Biff » Mon Aug 25, 2003 9:30 am

Ultraviolet wrote:Biff: You're correct, Vrack 2 isn't even a ZDoom wad. I think, aside from its size and number of monsters, it is Vanilla compatible even.
Yeah, that's why I'm surprised that zdaemon has fits with it now. Zdaemon does some really weird stuff...I started a coop server at home, doom2 map01 and when I joined I had a shotgun! There is no shotgun in the map at the start for solo\coop play so how zdaemon gives it....? I don't mean the DM weapons, those weren't present.
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Postby wildweasel » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:33 pm

Biff: Did you set the "Nice Weapons" DMFLAG? That starts all players with a shotgun.
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Postby Biff » Mon Aug 25, 2003 6:58 pm

wildweasel wrote:Biff: Did you set the "Nice Weapons" DMFLAG? That starts all players with a shotgun.
Thanks! That must be it, I assumed that it just turned off damage to other players.
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Postby IntergalacticWalrus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:43 pm

Aaaah the lost art of Co-Op. Sadly less and less seen these days.

Personally I think (Z)Doom lacks good Co-op gameplay rules. The sole fact that everybody just respawns back everytime they die makes strategy irrelevant. You can just fire away with your pistol and eventually win (except in Nightmare difficulty, but this is another thing).

I once thought about modifing ZDoom to be more interesting for Co-Op play but I never took the time to actually do it. For those interested to do it, here are my ideas:

- Increase monster health to about 2x.
- A "lives" system: each player can respawn a limited number of times (ie. 3). Players who have run out of lives can only watch the game through coopspy until their remaining teammates win the map. Every new map, all players get their lives back. If all players lose their lives, the map restarts like in SP.
- The ability to drop ammo. For example, you could press a key and a crate of rockets would appear next to you as 5 rockets get substracted from your own ammo.
- Weapons don't stay, but you can only pick a weapon once (this excludes weapons dropped from monsters, and this rule won't be here in Hexen). You could also drop a weapon if you think another player needs it more than you.
- In Heretic/Hexen, players can drop inventory items, too.
- Dead players drop a special backpack with all their weapons and ammo (and inventory items in Heretic/Hexen) in it. Whenever players touch it, they take as much ammo as they can carry and take only weapons they don't already have. The backpack dissapears only when everything in it has been taken.

Any other ideas?
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Postby Bio Hazard » Wed Sep 03, 2003 9:07 pm

that would rock so much...

what about a shared lives system... 5 lives to 2 players 7 to 3 10 to 4...

better yet what about adjustible?

if anyone wants to co-op, if im on aim, im game-ready (dont worry about me being busy). im ALWAYS in the mood for co-op...
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Postby IntergalacticWalrus » Wed Sep 03, 2003 10:41 pm

Damn I just thought about something else: shared and auto-distributed ammo at close-range.

Basically two or more players within a 256 pixel radius (could be adjustable) would all combine their ammo supplies into one. Whenever a player leaves the radius, he obtains his calculated fraction of the combined supply, considering what weapons he has (ie. if he doesn't have a rocket launcher, he won't get his fraction of rockets, that is unless no one else has a rocket launcher) and what he can carry.

This feature would remove the burden of carefully redistributing your ammo (via ammo drop, mentionned in my fist post) between you and your partners, making the game more action paced.

Dammit, I really need to work on this.
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Postby Ultraviolet » Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:14 am

Sometimes you don't want ammo to be distributed evenly. Sometimes you might want one person to have all the rockets so they can sit back and take some of the heat off the guy that got sent in to do some close-up work with the SSG. You might want another player with a chaingun to be standing somewhere between the two and covering the SSG guy and the rocket guy (given the rate of fire of the chaingun, that person can slow monsters down with it by taking advantage of their "pain chance" value).

EDIT: Just trying to say it should be manual.
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Postby Anonymous » Mon Sep 29, 2003 1:43 am

i don't like deathmatch. I prefer coop
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Postby Matt » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:31 am

First off, Walrus's ideas = t3h r0x0rz grand and asskickerous. To summarize in another mode of diction, agreeably good. But I would also like to add: Shared Automap. ("Quincy, you take the left down the corridor with the gargoyles. Mataias, follow Quincy until you get to the secret hall where I took out that Baron." "Secret?" "Uh... yeah." "...")

Secondly, all eye candy and no play makes (insert latest game here that uses all the latest shit and requires a computer whose cost could feed a Third World family for a year) a dull game. But I may be playing sour grapes with this one (all myopia and a TNT2 makes something something something...)

Thirdly, does anyone have any good recommendations for a voice-comm program? I've been using AIM's voice chat in the background for this, and not only does this mess up our audio (my friend can't get sound at all, while I freeze up momentarily every time the someone-logs-on/off sounds play) but there's also this three-second delay that makes most attempts at combat communication useless. ("Lookoutforthatbaron!::other person dies: "Back off, I'm going to fire a rocket down the hallway!"::other person kills everything with fists and is down to 1 health:: "I have a bad feeling about this switch, let me move to a better position before we continue." ::walls open and we're flanked by Revenants:: And to the friend I play with, if you're reading this, keep in mind that half the time it's me who's doing these things so hastily. ^^; )

Fourthly, this just occurred to me: A laser sight on the pistol. This would be SO useful for pointing at things.

EDIT: And my missing fifthly: What's wrong with Quake co-op? (I mean aside from getting a point for killing your teammate and all)
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Postby Ultraviolet » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:43 am

I suppose some kind of short-lived decal launcher for MP would be good. You could point, use what you've got bound to the command, and the decal would fire like a hitscan weapon. Actually, it might be best if this was a sprite so it could be used on other sprites.

Its behaviour should be such that it it is silent, doesn't wake monsters, flashes to fullbright and then dies. You could flash by pressing the button you've got bound to it several times to get the attention of somebody who is a bit slow. :-P

And please check the dates on posts before you post something in a thread that is so obviously old. In these forums, topics that have been replied to most recently are listed first, and therefore if you have to go several pages back then it is safe to assume that it's been a while since a topic was active. I don't mind, but a lot of people prefer that dead topics stay that way. The date of the post just before yours was some time in September, if that gives you a hint as to its age. Heh.

I think what bugs people is that they can't remember the contents of an old thread and they don't want to be bothered to reread it just so they can understand your post. This is especially annoying in longer threads.
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