Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Here, developers communicate stuff that does not go onto the main News section or the front page of the site.
[Dev Blog] [Development Builds] [Git Change Log] [GZDoom Github Repo]

Moderator: GZDoom Developers

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby wrkq » Wed Oct 21, 2020 2:30 pm

Dark Jaguar wrote:Oh I see that's a fair point. Perhaps it can do a quick check to see if there's custom settings and then warn the user that custom settings will be overwritten with either GZDoom defaults or "vanilla" settings. From there maybe it's on them if they want to use it, since they've been warned? How would others feel about that?


I mean, something like that already exists in the map compatibility flags menu, right?

Could have a "Current preset" entry with a couple of options like "Graf's Recommended", "Vanilla-Like", "I want to make my GPU scream", etc, and have it show "CUSTOM" if options are changed manually from the more detailed menus.

Maybe - if it'd be possible to do easy(ish) - have a second option below called "Apply Preset" that the user has to hit Enter on, that way there's no risk of accidentally switching away from your customized settings and irreversibly losing them with just one click/keypress.
wrkq
 
Joined: 02 Apr 2016

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Player701 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:52 pm

I'm sorry if this has been brought up before, but I couldn't find anything relevant after having done a quick search in this thread.

Regarding the new "Simple options menu", which appears to be enabled by default with some recent commits... I'd be very happy if mod-side extensions of the normal options menu (AddOptionMenu "OptionsMenu" {...}) also affected this new simple menu as well. Otherwise it will be much less trivial to access mod options, which may scare off less-experienced mod users if they can't find these options easily.

Note that updating the mod itself is of course a possible (and probably even the recommended) solution, but it's unlikely that every single mod developer out there would do that, especially for mods that are no longer developed at all.
User avatar
Player701
 
Joined: 13 May 2009
Location: Russia
Discord: Player701#8214
Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
OS Test Version: No (Using Stable Public Version)
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:55 pm

Surely that can be done. But modders really need to let go of that attitude and put their own "mod options" item in the main menu, like some bigger mods have been doing.
Lumping the mod options with the engine's option menu is not going to make things easy for the end user, no matter whether it's the simple of full menu.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Player701 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:03 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:But modders really need to let go of that attitude and put their own "mod options" item in the main menu, like some bigger mods have been doing.

I'd really like to do this for my own project, but is it possible to extend the main menu without redefining it completely? I don't want to rewrite its contents from scratch because it wouldn't be correct from a technical point of view (and also due to potential backwards-compatibility issues).

Upd: Ideally, new items added to the main menu should always go before "quit game" so that the usual sequence of key presses (Esc, up arrow, Enter, Y) does not lead to unexpected results.
User avatar
Player701
 
Joined: 13 May 2009
Location: Russia
Discord: Player701#8214
Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
OS Test Version: No (Using Stable Public Version)
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:18 pm

You cannot add to the main menu, you'd have to redefine it. But the main menu is 5 or 6 items, so that's no big deal.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Player701 » Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:26 pm

Graf Zahl wrote:You cannot add to the main menu, you'd have to redefine it. But the main menu is 5 or 6 items, so that's no big deal.

Looking at the MENUDEF file within gzdoom.pk3, there are also a lot of conditional blocks for different games. Considering that I also distribute a HUD package that can run in non-Doom games as well, I'd rather not copy-paste the entire menu code like that. Perhaps I'll instead work on a PR to implement a feature to extend this menu so that adding custom items can be done in the proper way...

BTW, there is at least one other drawback to this approach: if a PWAD adds custom graphics for main menu items (say, Alien Vendetta), an extra menu item in there would look really ugly. Not going to argue that it's indeed better than adding to GZDoom's options menu, though.
User avatar
Player701
 
Joined: 13 May 2009
Location: Russia
Discord: Player701#8214
Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
OS Test Version: No (Using Stable Public Version)
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Blzut3 » Sun Nov 01, 2020 8:01 pm

Since I feel like this is the best place to bring it up since I was checking out the simplified menus: is queryiwad false actually legitimately used by anyone? Maybe I'm just blind since you only hear about it when people accidentally tick the box and then wonder how to get the picker back. I would argue that if one doesn't want the iwad picker to show they should create a shortcut with -iwad. It does feel like this option only exists since it was always there and is just a UX disaster. At the very least remove the checkbox from the iwad picker and then it can be removed from the simplified menu, but really wonder if the feature should be there at all.
Blzut3
Pronounced: B-l-zut
 
 
 
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Github ID: Blzut3
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit
Graphics Processor: ATI/AMD with Vulkan Support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Rachael » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:31 am

If I could count the number of times something got removed because it *seemed* harmless to remove it...

So my question is what does it hurt having that checkbox there, that would be worth removing it despite the inevitable outrage that would cause?
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
OS Test Version: No (Using Stable Public Version)
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:37 am

Take the most pointless feature, remove it and you can be certain that someone out there was using it - for whatever reason.
Personally I think that this checkbox has outlived its usefulness a long time ago. It made a little bit sense when there was Doom and Doom 2 to choose from but these days it tends to cause more problems than it solves - but wanna bet that some people still activate it for whatever reason?
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Rachael » Mon Nov 02, 2020 8:41 am

I think the checkbox could be protected by a modal that when you click it accidentally it asks "are you sure?", giving the instructions (using SHIFT) right then and there, rather than warning/reminding you as the window is closing to start the game.

That's probably a better idea than outright removing it.

I personally don't use it but I am also not a huge fan of pissing people off when there's a way to avoid it.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Operating System: Windows 10/8.1/8/201x 64-bit
OS Test Version: No (Using Stable Public Version)
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Blzut3 » Mon Nov 02, 2020 4:52 pm

Rachael wrote:So my question is what does it hurt having that checkbox there, that would be worth removing it despite the inevitable outrage that would cause?

Like I said in the my previous post: The checkbox existing means that you need to have the option to restore the iwad selection dialog in the simplified menus. Plus the confusion when the user doesn't read and accidentally disables the dialog. It's simply bad user experience unless you're one of the two people that apparently want to hold shift to get an iwad selection or something.

OK, lets assume that someone out there is using it for whatever reason, what about my suggestion of just removing the checkbox and the menu items (or just the simplified menu item) and forcing users that want the behavior to toggle queryiwad manually?

On a somewhat related note, given that the iwad selection dialog has been expanded to included a few options for some time now. Does it still make sense to hide it when there's only one game installed?
Blzut3
Pronounced: B-l-zut
 
 
 
Joined: 24 Nov 2004
Github ID: Blzut3
Operating System: Debian-like Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Kali, Mint, etc) 64-bit
Graphics Processor: ATI/AMD with Vulkan Support

Re: Menu Revamp - Need feedback

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:20 pm

IMO it makes more sense to rename it to 'always show this' so that it can be enabled even with a GAMEINFO specifying an IWAD. The curremt behvior is rather useless.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
Lead GZDoom+Raze Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Previous

Return to Developer Blog

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests