Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Here, developers communicate stuff that does not go onto the main News section or the front page of the site.
[Dev Blog] [Development Builds] [Git Change Log] [GZDoom Github Repo]

Moderator: GZDoom Developers

Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri May 31, 2019 6:13 am

I recently installed Visual Studio 2019 and found out that it only supports compiling for Windows XP via legacy toolsets from older compilers. Yes, that is correct: Microsoft has finally dropped XP support from their current line of compiler tools.

This has an important implication: Going forward and using newer C++ language features in the source means that none of these will be backported to work with the XP compatible toolset.

Checking the database from the 3.5 survey. The survey contains 31480 distinct users not requiring the vintage build.
Of these 31480 users there were 41 users on Windows XP, meaning we are left with roughly 0.13% of our users on Windows XP.

Under these circumstances there is little point to continue XP support, the user base is simply too small to justify shutting ourselves off from future C++ versions and having to install a large package of legacy build tools and SDKs, so with the next release Windows XP support will be dropped from the official releases and no attempts will be made anymore to keep the code compatible with such older toolsets.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Rachael » Fri May 31, 2019 6:38 am

RIP Windows XP. Its support ended at least 5 years ago - it's time to move the fuck on.

I think we all can agree that Microsoft really dropped the ball with their more recent Windows offerings, putting in controversial features that no one asked for and bloating its size significantly. However, that is no reason to stay with such an outdated operating system, and we all must look to the future in this digital age. There is no excuse sticking with this system, outside of testing and using it to run much much older applications from inside a virtual machine.

That being said, I know there's going to be an extremely vocal minority upset with this decision. I already have a response to those people: Too bad, so sad, life moves on without you.

Linux is a viable system that will stay updated and will run perfectly on your piece of shit hardware. I would strongly suggest switching to it if you can't run Windows 7 or later. Lubuntu is a very lightweight distro that is extremely easy to use and should be very intuitive for XP users - your computer will be stronger and more secure in the long run if you choose to use this as your daily driver, and GZDoom will continue functioning on it in the future without problems as long as you keep it up to date.

Lubuntu Download
Guide to switching
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Enjay » Fri May 31, 2019 1:27 pm

I get why there was (is?) such a loyalty to XP. IMO it was the first incarnation of Win95-style presentation (as opposed to the quite different 3.1 layout) that was a really nice, competent and stable OS to use. I still have a really old rig kicking around with XP on it and when I fire it up, I still find XP very easy to use, more approachable than Win10 (or the previous XP successors). XP lasted a very long time and so much was set up for it.

But, yeah, it is now past it. The computing world has moved on and if continued support for XP (especially for so few people - who apparently have no problem sticking with old software, so they can stick with an old version of GZDoom if they really want :P ) causes the devs more hassle than it's worth, it's time to say goodbye to XP.


Image
"Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
User avatar
Enjay
Everyone is a moon, and has a dark side which he never shows to anybody. Twain
 
 
 
Joined: 15 Jul 2003
Location: Scotland

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby BFeely » Fri May 31, 2019 2:01 pm

By any chance have you tried this as a Post-Build Step?
Code: Select allExpand view
editbin.exe "$(TargetPath)" /SUBSYSTEM:WINDOWS,5.01 /OSVERSION:5.1

The redistributable still installs on XP SP3.
BFeely
 
Joined: 11 Mar 2004

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Rachael » Fri May 31, 2019 2:06 pm

That will not work. The file will execute, sure, but on XP systems the required libraries are not available.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri May 31, 2019 2:44 pm

Even if it worked, it''s simply not worth the hassle. The number of XP users is already extremely low and rapidly shrinking. It makes no sense compromising the integrity of the executable for a handful of people who have missed the sign of the times.

AFAIK this won't even work right because the more recent CRT depends on system functions that are either not present in XP or require feature support not present in XP.
From what I read several years ago a VS developer once said that the main reason why XP was abandoned was that a few CRT features cannot be implemented robustly due to missing system features.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Rachael » Fri May 31, 2019 2:52 pm

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It is a disservice to XP users to continue supporting it.

XP is prone to security flaws and malware infections far more than any of its successors, and that is a simple fact that if its users cannot cope with and comprehend with as well as the possible implications of that and the consequences - it's out of our reach. But to continue supporting this dated OS gives such users just one more reason not to migrate to something that at least has a minor concern about its own security as well as that of its end user.
User avatar
Rachael
Webmaster
 
Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Discord: Rachael#3767
Twitch ID: madamerachelle
Github ID: madame-rachelle
Graphics Processor: nVidia with Vulkan support

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:36 pm

Since XP is no longer supported I made a few minor changes to the project:

- Visual Studio now uses /permissive- mode, which disables the vast majority of Microsoft extensions that in the past have caused some trouble by letting code slip through that won't compile on GCC/Clang.
- since Visual Studio 2015 does not support this flag I removed it from the Appveyor configuration and hereby declare that compiler version unsupported as of now.

Since the XP compatible toolset is not compatible with /permissive- - which was the sole reason that this setting wasn't added - it will mean that the CMake project cannot be used to build an XP compatible binary anymore without making some edits.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Major Cooke » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:17 pm

Does 2019 already work with GZDoom source? Or is there more setting up required before we can start using it?
User avatar
Major Cooke
Do unto others as you would have unto you. Judge yourself first.
 
Joined: 28 Jan 2007

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Graf Zahl » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:47 pm

I already use 2019. It works just as well as 2017.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby _mental_ » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:05 am

VS2015 still builds GZDoom just fine. Output log is polluted with cl : Command line warning D9002: ignoring unknown option '/permissive-' messages, but that's all.
_mental_
 
 
 
Joined: 07 Aug 2011

Re: Visual Studio 2019 and the end of Windows XP support

Postby Graf Zahl » Fri Jun 21, 2019 1:29 am

It may still compile but that doesn't change the unsupported-ness.
As soon as post C++11 features get used, it will be over anyway.
User avatar
Graf Zahl
Lead GZDoom Developer
Lead GZDoom Developer
 
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Location: Germany


Return to Developer Blog

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest