[WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby Nevander » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:19 am

The textures in that shot look amazing, but a personal critique is the nukage. It seems so far no HD texture pack has made liquids look good. I can see a distinguishable tiling going on, which usually means it could probably be done better. That, and it seems a bit too much on the brighter greens. The stock liquid textures are actually a really good texture, I'd personally make them look closer to the originals.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby enderandrew » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:34 am

I really love this project, though I do agree that the tiling in the liquid texture is a bit off-putting.

Do any of the Doom source ports support bump/normal/displacement maps where you can make the switches (and other elements) pop out?
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby wpninja » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:49 pm

Oh man I am drooling right now. I personally love how the nukage looks but if people do have a problem with it it might be a good idea to make it as a separate package.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby hoover1979 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:38 am

The liquid textures (Blood/Water/Nukage) were done a few months ago with filters from filter forge 4.0 as a base.

I will look into the liquid some more in the next few days, now that I have filter forge 6.0 and the entire library to base from.

However I had the unfortunate experience of being without electricity for 23 hours so I have a lot on my plate with insurance claims and throwing an entire fridge and freezer of spoiled food away, and on top of that I am also sick. :cry: As soon as I am able to I will get straight back into work and will keep updating my progress both here and on the Steam Doom Forum.

Now that in the next few days I am having another crack at quitting smoking I will need to keep texturing to stop me chewing out my fingernails. :wink:

I wish all of you a happy and fruitful new year and will be back posting in a day or two. :D
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby hoover1979 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:54 am

enderandrew wrote:I really love this project, though I do agree that the tiling in the liquid texture is a bit off-putting.

Do any of the Doom source ports support bump/normal/displacement maps where you can make the switches (and other elements) pop out?


Not at the moment. :cry:
but I have not figured out how to get bump/normal/specular maps out of my finished textures. Filter Forge only lets me do those effects from their filters and not from my finished textures.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby enderandrew » Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:10 am

hoover1979 wrote:
enderandrew wrote:I really love this project, though I do agree that the tiling in the liquid texture is a bit off-putting.

Do any of the Doom source ports support bump/normal/displacement maps where you can make the switches (and other elements) pop out?


Not at the moment. :cry:
but I have not figured out how to get bump/normal/specular maps out of my finished textures. Filter Forge only lets me do those effects from their filters and not from my finished textures.

Perhaps put in a feature request for GZDoom?

I assume you can just open the texture in Photoshop, create a new layer, and then paint in the new layer over the background where you want an element to be raised. Then save the new layer as the bump map. Though this looks like a way to generate one in seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY6OH_o8krw
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby dpJudas » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:48 pm

If someone gives me a solid reason to add it (such as a full set of diffuse+normal+specular textures) then there's a good chance I'd add that. There are some challenges to overcome tho - mostly that the Doom light model has no directional light, which in turn means that there's no specular/bump light contribution to add. The dynamic lights could use them tho. And maybe fake contrast could be used as a way to pretend there is a light direction.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby hoover1979 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:44 pm

enderandrew wrote:
hoover1979 wrote:
enderandrew wrote:I really love this project, though I do agree that the tiling in the liquid texture is a bit off-putting.

Do any of the Doom source ports support bump/normal/displacement maps where you can make the switches (and other elements) pop out?


Not at the moment. :cry:
but I have not figured out how to get bump/normal/specular maps out of my finished textures. Filter Forge only lets me do those effects from their filters and not from my finished textures.

Perhaps put in a feature request for GZDoom?

I assume you can just open the texture in Photoshop, create a new layer, and then paint in the new layer over the background where you want an element to be raised. Then save the new layer as the bump map. Though this looks like a way to generate one in seconds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY6OH_o8krw


What he did looks like a grayscale bump that would be used as an overlay in Photoshop.
I can do that in filter forge as some of my textures got that treatment. However in the video he made the cardinal sin by adding a blur without repeating the texture in 3x3 grid which mean a big seam where the effect should tile. Filter forge has a bump prep with ambient occlusion (with seamless tile) but is not for external bumps as it is greyscale rather than purple/cyan/white like an external normal map is (required for true bump mapping). so it is a "fake" bump map to overlay into a texture in Photoshop, rather than a good external effect like the Darkplaces engine can do for Quake.

Filter forge has a convert bump to normal filter to apply to a greyscale bump map, but it is not accurate and what is meant to be raised could be depressed and vice versa.

maybe I can teach myself Blender after all the textures are complete and try to make normal maps by extruding the textures in a 3D surface?
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby hoover1979 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:49 pm

I have started mucking around with replacement fluid textures.

I am using two customized filters blended together for each frame

Below is a demo of frame 01 of the Nukage Texture.
CTRL+Click the link to open full size image in new tab (to avoid having large images hogging up the forum post)

http://pre13.deviantart.net/4589/th/pre ... atgsc5.png (Updated)

EDIT: I also did the water, sludge, slime and blood and tested them ingame and they animate brilliantly. :mrgreen:
I also redid the Nukage texture and updated it so click on it's above link to see the new version. :D

Blood Texture:
http://pre06.deviantart.net/b997/th/pre ... athbgq.png

Water Texture:
http://pre11.deviantart.net/a663/th/pre ... athbll.png

Sludge Texture:
http://pre02.deviantart.net/ce78/th/pre ... athbou.png

Slime Texture:
http://pre07.deviantart.net/6b08/th/pre ... athbsc.png

These textures have a base texture and a caustic overlay. With each frame change both the texture and the caustic change so it does not look like animated caustics over a stagnant texture.
Last edited by hoover1979 on Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:48 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby enderandrew » Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:51 pm

dpJudas wrote:If someone gives me a solid reason to add it (such as a full set of diffuse+normal+specular textures) then there's a good chance I'd add that. There are some challenges to overcome tho - mostly that the Doom light model has no directional light, which in turn means that there's no specular/bump light contribution to add. The dynamic lights could use them tho. And maybe fake contrast could be used as a way to pretend there is a light direction.

Understandable, but it is also a chicken and the egg scenario where people may not want to work on bump maps if no engine supports them.

Diffuse, normal and specular maps do rely on directional lighting, but couldn't bump (and maybe displacement) maps be added to create depth on flat walls?

hoover1979 wrote:http://orig13.deviantart.net/4593/f/2016/364/6/e/flat_nukage1_by_hoover1979-datgsc5.png
CTRL+Click the link to open full size image in new tab

That looks pretty good though I'm curious to see it in motion in the game.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby dpJudas » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:53 pm

enderandrew wrote:Understandable, but it is also a chicken and the egg scenario where people may not want to work on bump maps if no engine supports them.

My problem is that I need a realistic setup of textures in order to test how changes to the Doom lighting system will really look. In order to get such an extension accepted by Graf, I have to prove that the extension looks good and is a fitting solution to this particular problem. As he evaluates that just as much by visual testing as by inspection of the code, the test material becomes very important. If the solution does not convince him, it he will reject it based on the fact that a poor solution will just increase code maintenance costs (as he should).

enderandrew wrote:Diffuse, normal and specular maps do rely on directional lighting, but couldn't bump (and maybe displacement) maps be added to create depth on flat walls?

From a technical point of view, what Doom has is only ambient light expressed as a light level. Diffuse and specular light rely on the angle the light source hits the surface of the wall - with just ambient light there is no such thing. The normal map expresses the plane angle of the surface itself, but it has to be paired with the angle the light hits the surface for it to be usable.

Doom had this problem already in 1993 where purely ambient light looks just too flat. The fake contrast feature is actually the faked direction to the light source. There is some chance that this could act as the light source direction for the bump map and specular light as well, but there is also the chance that doing this will reveal to the eye that it's all fake.

I did some tests several months back where I created a fake light direction for the calculations - in some situations that looked very fancy, but in others it looked quite terrible. Part of the reason it varied so much was because I didn't have any specular or normal textures - for some walls that looked excellent for that material, and for others it was a disaster. Had I attempted to PR what I had there, it would most certainly have been rejected on the basis that it violates the Doom light model. Thus, part of the challenge is to prove that such a setup can be shown to work within the boundaries of how light functions in Doom.
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby hoover1979 » Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:29 pm

I updated the nukege texture and added the other fluid textures in my previous post. At some time I will break out Nvidia ShadowPlay and make a Youtube video showcasing the animation of the blood/nukage/water/sludge/slime textures ingame. :D

I am also going to have a crack at a 4k HUD, but atm I will leave the doom face untouched, as it makes doom DOOM! Risen3D screwed the pooch with a 3D modeled face, that looks more like Max Payne found Stewie Griffin's Multiverse machine and ended up in the doom universe. :lol:
Maybe have the HUD texture vary a bit between Doom, Doom II, Plutonia Experiment and Evilution? (if possible) :wink:
I could make a more realistic yellow eye glow of the original doomguy image for IDDQD mode, but I will leave the doomguy face itself as is, until I have developed enough skills to replicate it in UHD with it looking like the famous doomguy to a tea. (I could use a temporary doomguy of the original, resized with a median filter?)

Maybe one day, after all the textures and the brightmaps/shinemaps are finished, I would like to teach myself 3D modelling, and when I can do good models I may make a model pack for Risen3D/jDoom and render the models out for an UltraHD Sprite Pack for GZDoom.

Keep watching this space. :mrgreen:

EDIT: I have uploaded the E2M2 screenshot again, with the new Nukage texture in place. (CTRL+Click to view full image in new tab)

http://orig04.deviantart.net/6b04/f/201 ... at5ojh.jpg
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby enderandrew » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:17 am

FWIW, I don't think this HD Doomguy looks like Stewie.

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=48921
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby hoover1979 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:59 pm

I said the Risen HD doomguy looked like Max Payne, after he got Stewie's multiverse tool and ended up in the Doom universe, rather than being true to doom and looking like doomguy.

well at least for me, Max Payne 1 and 2 sprung to mind in half a second when I first fired up risen3D and saw their HUD

the one you linked me to looks more like doomguy, and is very well done (Thanks for linking that that BTW). The risen3D one is a 3D model does not.

example of Risen3D's default HD HUD (CTRL-Click to view in new tab)

http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/12 ... -36-90.jpg
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Re: [WIP] 2K UltraHD Texture Pack for Doom in the works.

Postby ZikShadow » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:48 pm

I believe that's BJ Blazkowicz's RTCW head.

Image

Guess that's where they got the model from.
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