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Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:24 pm
by PhAyzoN
While it certainly isnt Vader-quality, that looks really good for being done so fast! :D

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:33 pm
by Amuscaria
Mtzfire wrote:It took ages to make this:
Spoiler:
,

and only 1/2 hour to make this:
Image
--------------------------
EDIT: Edited, cuz, apparently I was being a jerk :oops: :lol:


Open the spoiler if you want constructive criticism. If you're the type that don't like it, then don't bother and just read below above it.

The new version certainly shows much improvement over your earlier attempts. For one, it's sharp and form well defined. The shading is also much better, which was more or less non existent in the previous attempts by you. The new sprite also looks like a clay model, which is a great improvement over the flat plastic look in the originals.


Spoiler:

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:01 am
by Mtzfire
No sprite, but I guess I should say this again, and will probably keep saying it:

-Don't expect any "fake" added things that aren't in the original sprites. Yes, my goal was to recreate the sprites and KEEP them looking in shape Exactly like the originals :wink: I don't want to add anything that's not supposed to be there (like a nose on the Demon, which id never gave), or veins or extra anything. I'm just recreating the sprites with 4x the clarity, and if you look at a strectched sprite, and then mine, you'll see I've done my job.

-I understand that some people want images that look "redrawn," but unlike some, maybe alot of people, I prefer the way the classic, original sprites look, and I'm making sure my sprites keep the original shape, and details will be added, but NOT anything dealing with anotamy, which was not placed by Id Software, and 1 thing said could be: "Detail is lost in sprite-size." That doesn't exactly go for the Doom sprites, whose clay models don't have much more detail at all than the sprites (except for the Revenant, who had veins all over). The other models were painted and looked like toys, even the detailed Spider Mastermind model looked like a cheesy brain with a funny smile, because, again, Doom is a cartoony game.

-If these words were confusing or seemed to make no sense at all, here's the bottom line: This is about keeping the original sprites' shape and style, I'm keeping the sprites cartoony, funny, and colorfull.

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:33 am
by Blox
Why yes, the shapes look nice and all. But I would wonder why nobody notices the grotesque unsharp mask?
I have a quick and dirty example here, with and without a unsharp mask applied.

With:
Spoiler:


Without:
Spoiler:


Unsharp masks really just make your sprite very ugly, unless used properly. Like clarifying obscure edges/details.

More or less like this:

Spoiler:


Doom wasn't crazily cartoonish either, Doom was more creepily/stereotypically themed. Slightly cartoonish because it would take quite some time to design demonic looking stuff, all while keeping stuff rather simple.
All in a low resolution too. (The imp is about 54x62)

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:36 pm
by Cyanosis
I think id described Doom as a live action comic book.

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:46 pm
by Tragos
Up-scaling the original sprites is a great idea. I'm fine with the basic touch up work as seen on the Demon sprite above. At some point a majority of the Doom monsters will start looking like clay, after all most where clay models to begin with. While I'd love to see completely redrawn high resolution versions, not everyone can agree on each artists own interpretation of these classic baddies. Doom 64 I was initially against, but I think the artists did a great job keeping the original vision the same while making it much moodier and darker. I like what I'm seeing in this post, keep up the great work people!

To some up this rant, in my opinion here is the best idea for this high res stuff.

1. Enlarge original sprites x4.
2. Apply basic shading and sharpen slightly.
3. Scale back down to X2 of original sprite.
4. Done!

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:16 pm
by Mtzfire
Well we could always make things like this:
Image
That was made by Blox, and yes, after a 4x clean up, we can shrink them to 2x, which is what he did.

But whats the point in shrinking them? We never said we'd give 4x detail, just 4x clarity.

The point is to provide sprites with 4x the clarity, the resolution, nothing more and nothing less.

-So it's probably best to stop this 'details' thing, and go back to making classic sprites, for clarity, not for detail.

Hey, I think it's what's best. This here, by Blox, was indeed a very nice sprite:
Image
-Which is why I think it's best to leave details out.

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:25 pm
by Megamur
Look at that HD Remix Street Fighter II game. If anything, I felt they had less depth than the old sprites, and looked flatter and more cartoony, but they were certainly much bigger and clearer.

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:53 pm
by Mtzfire
Yes, that's what I tried again and again to say, untill I gave in.

-And yes, if you look at Street Fighter HD, there is NO new detail, in skin or clothes, they made the sprites more CLEAR, hence the name 'HD'.

-And I plan to go back to keeping sprites EXACTLY like the classic ones, I've had it with all this "detail," considering we're not Id Software.

-And a little more: Doom2RPG shows none of that "detail" stuff either, besides basic lines and spots, like on the Marine.

Well hopefully that's enough to get everyone to understand the purpose of this project. To give 4x CLARITY, nothing more. :)

-----------------------------------------------
And if someone wants super-detailed comic-book sprites, you'll have to hand draw them, and that would give you at least 8x :)
---------------
That's the last of the "details" thing. I'm back to where I started, and classic-looking sprites is the best way to go. :)

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:58 pm
by Mtzfire
OKAY, WELL, once again I'm rethinking.
-I HAVE stopped making sprites, because I keep finding new methods. I have found the 1 good software that can re-render sprites, in 2x hi-res, but unfortunately, it's only for 2x.

-ANYWAY, would the best way to make these be the way Street Fighter HD sprites were made? :D
-It doesn't use any smudging of the original at all, it make a super-flat image, that later gets highlights and shades added.

-Anyway I just saw their process, and it's very easy untill the last step, where you do just a tiny bit of smudging (for an art-like look)

So yeah, I'll try a "Street-Fighter HD" styled hi-res sprites :)

-I KNOW it won't look like the dark comic-book style of DOOM, but it will look like the average comic book, without darkness everywhere :)

-I'm not saying it will be IdSoftware quality, or even StreetFighter HD quality, but it will be better than big blobs or pixels from using the small regualr sprites :)
----------------------------
EDIT: If it looks bad, I just won't post :wink: If it looks good, I might keep at it, and name the sprites something else, not 4x hi-res, just because of the style Stree Fighter HD has, which is entirely different to that of Doom...

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:28 pm
by wildweasel
The artists for Street Fighter HD actually just redrew the graphics completely from scratch, from what I have seen, since the company that handled graphics, UDON, is also in charge of the Street Fighter comic book series.

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:44 pm
by Mtzfire
No, they don't redaw from scratch, that would take too long, even for artists. This site pretty much shows you how it's done:

http://blogs.capcomusa.com/blogs/digital.php/2007/06/14/how_they_do_it_sf_hd_remix

It's not really redrawing at all, it's going over the old sprite, as a new layer, then you add colors, and finally you do a bit of smuding to give it a painted look :) You get the result quicker than redrawing, and it's the best way to go.

Even if that's not 100% it, it's the fastest way to do it

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:45 pm
by wildweasel
Well, it still involves quite a large amount of actual drawing...

Re: [WIP]4xHi-res Sprites... and 4xHD?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:47 pm
by Mtzfire
I guess, if you can't draw basic lines with the line tool. The smudging is the hardest part at the end, just because you have to make it look painted, not like a smear.
Well I'm trying it, because it's "easy". It just takes ALOT of patience

EDIT: Of course they used Vectors at first, not line tool, you can get the same result, because at the end you get a flat image, not vectors
EDIT2: Just thought I'd say, I don't mean it's reall easy, it's not even easy at all if you have no artistic talent. What I meant was, it's easy if you do have it :)