Doom 64: Retribution

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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby snackerfork » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:20 am

Lost Souls that you spawn won't explode because they're given the SoulNoBoom item when they enter the Spawn state, which prevents them from exploding. If you want them to always explode, take out TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("SoulNoBoom", 1, 1) from their Death state.

And for it's worth I actually looked into the Doom 64 EX source code and 128, 128 are the correct values. Here's the code from there:

Code: Select allExpand view
    // Check for movements

    if((!P_TryMove(newmobj, newmobj->x, newmobj->y)) ||
        (!P_PathTraverse(actor->x, actor->y, newmobj->x, newmobj->y, PT_ADDLINES, PIT_PainCheckLine)))
    {
        // kill it immediately
       
        P_DamageMobj(newmobj, actor, actor, 10000);
        P_RadiusAttack(newmobj, newmobj, 128);
        return;
    }


You can see it does a P_RadiusAttack of 128, which means 128 range, 128 damage. That's identical to the code for the barrel explosion:

Code: Select allExpand view
//
// A_Explode
//

void A_Explode(mobj_t* thingy)
{
    P_RadiusAttack(thingy, thingy->target, 128);
}
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:24 am

snackerfork wrote:Lost Souls that you spawn won't explode because they're given the SoulNoBoom item when they enter the Spawn state, which prevents them from exploding. If you want them to always explode, take out TNT1 A 0 A_JumpIfInventory("SoulNoBoom", 1, 1) from their Death state.

But I tried that, as I said in my post. I even made it so the Death state always does A_Explode no matter what with no inventory checks, no matter who or how it dies. It was doing A_Explode and it was indeed happening, but I never took damage unless it died in some other way that wasn't from the player or kill command (which is also instigated by the player).

I wanted to do this to tweak damage because 128 seems high.
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby snackerfork » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:48 am

Huh, you're right. That's extremely weird - I have absolutely no idea why it'd work that way. I'm glad you figured it out though!

Anyway, I agree that 128 seems ridiculous - for my Doom 2 mod, I reduced it all the way to 32 (and D2 PEs only fire one so that's even less damage). But in Doom 64 it seems like it's by design, to make fighting a PE at close range instant death. The level design even seems designed around this to force you to back up and fight PEs at range. For example, there's a narrow hallway on MAP29 with two PEs in if - you can't enter the hallway at all until they're dead or their exploding LSes will vaporize you, so you have to retreat and use rockets to kill them through the doorway.

Of course, it's up to you how accurate you want to be.
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:23 am

Out of curiosity, have you seen Cage's newest sprite for Supplice's Chaingunner?

Image

Do you think the one in the hazmat suit could work as a basis for a Doom 64 Chaingunner?
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby wildweasel » Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:10 am

Is it really okay for you to be volunteering someone else's resources that aren't even finished/released yet?
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:49 pm

I am not volunteering anyone. I am just asking what he thinks of Cage's sprite, since we have been previously discussing the possible reintroduction of the missing Doom 64 monsters.
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:48 pm

They do look great but two problems: 1) if they are for Supplice, then I won't use them and 2) they still look very classic Doom to me, I doubt they would fit in Doom 64.
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:18 pm

The Flamer's helmet does remind me quite of a lot of Quake's Enforcer. An interesting coincidence, given how Doom 64 seems to have drawn much inspiration from Quake.

What do you think would be needed for it to fit Doom 64?
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Cage » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:46 pm

Won't work, because it's PC Doom based while Doom64's monsters follow a different scale and proportions. Scaling it up won't help, since the proportions will still be off, and stylistically it still isn't a great fit - not to mention the cleanup you'd have to do after scaling, which sounds like a lot of work for a pretty meagre result. You'd have more luck editing the Doom64 soldier sprites to incorporate the chaingun, ammo pack and adding some more muscle to the body.

Best bet IMO for bringing in any missing Doom64 monsters, is to do some proper high poly models matched in style and color, and just render them out. That pretty much means doing some proper custom content - I've been meaning to try, but one epic (Supplice) is already enough on my plate.

I'm surprised, but it seems no one thought of this - If I was to try to rip/repurpose something, I'd give a try using Doom 3's Archville and Revenant (With that transparent skin thing removed). I think they could be a decent fit visually, plus they're already animated. I wouldn't go for 2016 though.

Spider Mastermind would have to be created, however he could be very similar to Doom64 Arachnotron so that's a very solid reference point to try to match up.

That's all from me, now let's keep Supplice in the Supplice thread, and Doom 64: Retribution in the Doom 64: Retribution thread. :)
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby scalliano » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:04 am

Spider Mastermind-wise, I'd say that the one made for MetaDoom is very D64-esque, although her legs/feet may need to be edited a bit.
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:27 am

And what about BD64 Spider Mastermind?
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:02 pm

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:And what about BD64 Spider Mastermind?

A little too cringy for my tastes.
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:05 pm

What do you mean by "cringy"?
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:11 pm

It's just a resized Doom 64 Arachnotron with an enormous skull randomly put on it, and not all the sprites are even the same colors or look the same from within SLADE. It's a quick shop job and not proper sprites. In my mind a proper Spider Mastermind in Doom 64 style has the same colors and style as the Aracnotron but obviously a lot bigger and dual chainguns instead of plasma cannons, not to mention a more fleshed out face design (akin to the Spider Mastermind having somewhat of an actual face instead of Arachnotrons in classic Doom having a very simple baby spider like face).
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Re: [v1.3] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby SoulCircle » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:34 am

Yeah that's because Mark himself said that it's just a placeholder at the moment until he can make something better.
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