Doom 64: Retribution

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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Tapwave » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:35 am

Nevander wrote:What do you mean?

He means it'd work better as an optional level set, and your focus should be just the tc, without the extra levels.
I think.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby isaacpop23 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:25 am

I would think it fits in well with the main project, given that it's basically an expansion pack for D64. While it may not be an official one, it's as close as we're gonna get given that an official one doesn't seem to be coming out any time soon. And from the expansion status that at least I'm giving it, it makes sense to have it built in. You don't see "Thy Flesh Consumed" marked as an expansion, and "No Rest For the Living" is put in alongside "Hell On Earth" if it's available.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Tue Apr 11, 2017 4:41 pm

The plan was always to put the new episode into the main WAD, but anything else would not be.

So in the future when everything is done, you'd get this:

Main Game + Retribution Episode is one file
Absolution Levels is a separate PWAD to add this episode to the list
Outcast Levels same as above
...and so on

Also try to keep in mind that even if new things, monsters, or weapons are added inside Retribution, they will never be added into the main game unless you do it yourself by using "give" or "summon" commands. I can't stop you from doing that, so don't complain about new guns in the main game when they aren't.

The reason I am even going to add anything new is because all the other episodes have added things to make them stand out. The Absolution TC has new Nightmare enemies, Outcast has new enemies and even new textures, and so on. Retribution will have it's own new things to give an identity, but the main Doom 64 will always be Doom 64 only. That was always the goal.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby leodoom85 » Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:50 pm

Nevander wrote:The plan was always to put the new episode into the main WAD, but anything else would not be.

So in the future when everything is done, you'd get this:

Main Game + Retribution Episode is one file
Absolution Levels is a separate PWAD to add this episode to the list
Outcast Levels same as above
...and so on

Also try to keep in mind that even if new things, monsters, or weapons are added inside Retribution, they will never be added into the main game unless you do it yourself by using "give" or "summon" commands. I can't stop you from doing that, so don't complain about new guns in the main game when they aren't.

The reason I am even going to add anything new is because all the other episodes have added things to make them stand out. The Absolution TC has new Nightmare enemies, Outcast has new enemies and even new textures, and so on. Retribution will have it's own new things to give an identity, but the main Doom 64 will always be Doom 64 only. That was always the goal.


Perfect. Just sticking to its roots :)
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:44 pm

What I look forward playing the most is the Outcast Levels, given how they have been designed by Kaiser himself.

However, I got to say, I am not sure what to expect from the Retribution anymore: at first, I thought it was just going to be more (hopefully harder) levels featuring vanilla Doom 64 gameplay, but seeing how you now plan to go as far as to work the Praetor Suit into it, I really have no idea how this is going to shape out.
Last edited by JohnnyTheWolf on Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:53 pm

If that even happens (because I'm not a sprite artist, someone will need to make them), keep in mind the Praetor Suit is only a sprite. Gameplay will not change one single bit. It's purpose in Retribution will be to fit in with the lore. That's it.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:41 pm

So it is just going to be a harder set of Doom 64 maps? No new items, weapons or enemies?
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:48 pm

There may or may not be new enemies, I only plan to add a Praetor Suit item which is for lore purposes only (will not affect player stats, that's what happens during DOOM 2016 remember?), and if I add any new weapons it would be the cut version of the Unmaker from that old screenshot. However, I will not make it behave like it does in BD64. We already have a laser gun, so instead it might be a Flamethrower or some other damage type not used yet.

I am also considering adding a Nailgun to the episode. I feel like a Nailgun would go really well in the theme of Doom 64, but once again it would only be used in this episode by default and you don't have to use it if you don't want to.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:31 am

Nevander wrote:(will not affect player stats, that's what happens during DOOM 2016 remember?)


Actually, it does: the Praetor Suit comes with all sorts of upgrades that makes you crazy powerful. Personally, I would not even include it - not even as an alternate skin - and I would just pretend the default Marine armour and it are one and the same. After all, if Retribution is supposed to be 7-episode long, there really is not much room for lengthy explanations and it would be weird to be told through a brief intermission text that you have been given an upgrade without it having any repercussion on the gameplay.

Anyway, a Flamethrower and a Nailgun sound like good ideas on paper, although in the latter's case, I would rather refer to it as a Dartgun if you intend to make it shoot the projectiles used in environmental traps. If you can make them work without causing an overlap with Doom 64's already formidable arsenal, then all the better!
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:41 pm

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:
Nevander wrote:(will not affect player stats, that's what happens during DOOM 2016 remember?)

Actually, it does: the Praetor Suit comes with all sorts of upgrades that makes you crazy powerful.

What I meant was the suit starts at an un-upgraded level in DOOM 2016 and you upgrade it through progression, but when you start there are no upgrades at all. So it would make sense to assume we couldn't upgrade the suit until we starting using Argent Cells.

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:Anyway, a Flamethrower and a Nailgun sound like good ideas on paper, although in the latter's case, I would rather refer to it as a Dartgun if you intend to make it shoot the projectiles used in environmental traps. If you can make them work without causing an overlap with Doom 64's already formidable arsenal, then all the better!

The plan was to (if added) leave them on slot 9 so they don't interfere with any of the normal Doom 64 weapons. Any new guns will not nor will they ever replace or spawn in the normal Doom 64 levels. Like I said earlier, the only way to get them in normal levels would be to actually summon or give them manually which is something you have to do on purpose. The Nailgun if added would indeed fire the projectiles the maps do, and even though the projectile's real name is Dart, something about "Dartgun" sounds puny, whereas Nailgun is the accepted standard for a spiky thing shooter.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:46 am

Nevander wrote:What I meant was the suit starts at an un-upgraded level in DOOM 2016 and you upgrade it through progression, but when you start there are no upgrades at all. So it would make sense to assume we couldn't upgrade the suit until we starting using Argent Cells.


I would say it is more of a suspension of disbelief/video game convention to have the supposedly powerful hero start off as weak, but fair enough.

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:The plan was to (if added) leave them on slot 9 so they don't interfere with any of the normal Doom 64 weapons. Any new guns will not nor will they ever replace or spawn in the normal Doom 64 levels. Like I said earlier, the only way to get them in normal levels would be to actually summon or give them manually which is something you have to do on purpose. The Nailgun if added would indeed fire the projectiles the maps do, and even though the projectile's real name is Dart, something about "Dartgun" sounds puny, whereas Nailgun is the accepted standard for a spiky thing shooter.


Again, fair enough.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Raziel236 » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:08 am

Could you make the barells more effective? They are useless or have almost no range.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:32 pm

Regarding the Nailgun, how exactly powerful is it going to be? Maybe it could replace the Pistol altogether in Retribution.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby Nevander » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 pm

Raziel236 wrote:Could you make the barells more effective? They are useless or have almost no range.

They are the exact same as the classic counterpart, except with a bit lower health. I might could tweak the explosion range to take into account everything being bigger.

JohnnyTheWolf wrote:Regarding the Nailgun, how exactly powerful is it going to be? Maybe it could replace the Pistol altogether in Retribution.

It would be kind of like another Chaingun except it fires the trap projectiles, maybe with a bit more damage but not a lot.
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Re: [v1.1] Doom 64: Retribution

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:32 pm

Maybe it could replace the Chaingun altogether then. Like, Doomguy has ventured so far into Hell that he can no longer get his hand on another Chaingun and has to rely on its Hellish counterpart.
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