GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby boris » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:08 am

Why the emphasis on GL? It's not like it's the defining feature of the program. It's just a library to make it usable. That's like calling it Winforms Doom Builder.

[edit]
dpJudas wrote:@ZZYZX you're of course welcome to use the GZDoomBuilderGL name I used. Personally I would just call it GZDB because at this point it is clear the original maintainer is not going to return. Whenever people say GZDB they always mean the GZDB-Bugfix version.

Edit: at least that's been my impression when ppl say GZDB.

No, they don't. Most people are simply not that deep into the development of the tools that they know the difference. I mean, there are still people using DB2!
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby dpJudas » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:13 am

boris wrote:No, they don't. Most people are simply not that deep into the development of the tools that they know the difference. I mean, there are still people using DB2!

What I mean is that since the original development branch of GZDB has ended long time ago there's no difference in saying you are using GZDB than that you're using a very old version of GZDB-Bugfix.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Kizoky » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:18 am

OpenGL version breaks some of my models, they all are in MD3:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... height=677

Attachment is below for the model, I also included a map where the tank is placed
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Rachael » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:21 am

boris wrote:Why the emphasis on GL? It's not like it's the defining feature of the program. It's just a library to make it usable. That's like calling it Winforms Doom Builder.

Just something that sets it apart from everything else, I guess. /shrugs

You could call it MicrosoftIsShitBuilder for all I care.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby dpJudas » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:26 am

I'm not sure if MicrosoftIsShitBuilder is the best name. :P
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby boris » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:37 am

dpJudas wrote:
boris wrote:No, they don't. Most people are simply not that deep into the development of the tools that they know the difference. I mean, there are still people using DB2!

What I mean is that since the original development branch of GZDB has ended long time ago there's no difference in saying you are using GZDB than that you're using a very old version of GZDB-Bugfix.

Assume MaxEd will come back and wants to pick up where he left, and not use GZDB-BF as a base, what then? Do we have two forks with the same name? I know this is ridiculously unlikely, but why even risk this ambiguity?
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:48 am

boris wrote:Why not seize the opportunity and take something without "GZ" (and possible Doom) in the name? And what if the rendering gets changed to Vulkan?

Because "without GZ" is Doom Builder X. Even though GZDB still works for non-GZ map editing...

Why emphasis on GL: because this is a major change which separates this specific version from everything else.
It somewhat is the defining feature (just like GZ in the name) because this is the first version of GZDB that works on Linux just as well as SLADE.
(You could say D3D9 version works on Linux, but that's... not entirely true, there are people who were able to run it, but this seems random and highly configuration- and WINE skills-dependent)

If calling it GZDoomBuilder-GL, we highlight two things: that it is crossplatform, and that it supports advanced GZDoom features.
I'm okay with any other name that'd do the same. Would really like to not overencumber it with abbreviations. GLDB, maybe. Or something entirely weird like NextBuilder ;)
May as well just call it ZZDoomBuilder but then it kind of shadows all work other people put in it ;)

Why not GZDoomBuilder: because I'd like to clearly separate myself from MaxED's property. That's like calling GZDoom forks "GZDoom".
Last edited by ZZYZX on Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby dpJudas » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:56 am

Alright so not GZDB then. What would you call the fork, boris? :)
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:01 am

GZMapster :lol:

Though on a more serious note I wouldn't throw out the main name of "Doom Builder". Just to not confuse people.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby axredneck » Wed Dec 18, 2019 11:10 am

I'm for GZDoomBuilder-GL or GZDoomBuilderGL name too.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby boris » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:18 pm

ZZYZX wrote:
boris wrote:Why not seize the opportunity and take something without "GZ" (and possible Doom) in the name? And what if the rendering gets changed to Vulkan?

Because "without GZ" is Doom Builder X. Even though GZDB still works for non-GZ map editing...

Why emphasis on GL: because this is a major change which separates this specific version from everything else.
It somewhat is the defining feature (just like GZ in the name) because this is the first version of GZDB that works on Linux just as well as SLADE.
(You could say D3D9 version works on Linux, but that's... not entirely true, there are people who were able to run it, but this seems random and highly configuration- and WINE skills-dependent)

If calling it GZDoomBuilder-GL, we highlight two things: that it is crossplatform, and that it supports advanced GZDoom features.
I'm okay with any other name that'd do the same. Would really like to not overencumber it with abbreviations. GLDB, maybe. Or something entirely weird like NextBuilder ;)
May as well just call it ZZDoomBuilder but then it kind of shadows all work other people put in it ;)


People care that the program runs for them. Nobody cares if it's by using DirectX, OpenGL, or black magic. This is a bit of a different case compared to programs like ZDoomGL, which actually brought much of a change, things that were previously not possible. For the OpenGL version of GZDB-BF nothing will change whatsoever for the majority of the userbase. If you replace DevIL with FreeImage (or whatever), it will not suddenly be called GZDoom Builder FreeImage? No, because nobody cares what library the program uses to load images.

ZZYZX wrote:Though on a more serious note I wouldn't throw out the main name of "Doom Builder". Just to not confuse people.

At this very moment there are two types of people: those that are already confused about the relationship between Doom Builder, Doom Builder 2, Doom Builder X, GZDoom Builder, and GZDoom Builder Bugfix, and those who aren't. A change of names will magically un-confuse the confused ones. If you want to keep confusion to a minimum you'll have to keep the same name.

There are editors like Eureka, Yadex, Hellmaker, Trenchbroom (for Quake), so names like that work, too. Maybe something related to the Doom story (heh) could be salvaged. Mars, Phobos, Deimos, gate(ways), hell, demons etc. Helljaunt (like King's short story, The Jaunt, that also is about teleportation gateways), DEIMOS (Doom Editing someone-has-to-come-up-with-the-rest-of-the-backronym) etc.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:23 pm

Kizoky wrote:OpenGL version breaks some of my models, they all are in MD3:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachment ... height=677

Attachment is below for the model, I also included a map where the tank is placed

Model is broken because in D3D and GDI texture starts in the bottom (it's Y-flipped)
More specifically, D3D coordinate system indeed is Y-flipped too, but it's kind of a consequence of the fact that all Windows imaging is Y-flipped...

Temporarily resolved by flipping the bitmap manually. Though real issue is that Texture from Bitmap constructor is wrong (as supposedly, the provider of Bitmap should not think about internals of the rendering engine).

(I don't have any problems with this, but it may fail in other unexpected places too)

https://i.imgur.com/BDYag7M.png
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Wed Dec 18, 2019 1:40 pm

boris wrote:People care that the program runs for them. Nobody cares if it's by using DirectX, OpenGL, or black magic. This is a bit of a different case compared to programs like ZDoomGL, which actually brought much of a change, things that were previously not possible. For the OpenGL version of GZDB-BF nothing will change whatsoever for the majority of the userbase. If you replace DevIL with FreeImage (or whatever), it will not suddenly be called GZDoom Builder FreeImage? No, because nobody cares what library the program uses to load images.

But it will get GLSL shaders from hardwareshader :o
Though, again: propose a better name. I don't really have a great imagination in this regard.

From your list, I personally like Helljaunt. More common like Phobos, Deimos IIRC are taken by various other projects.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Graf Zahl » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:26 pm

Let me make one thing clear: I'd really, *REALLY* appreciate if the GZ was excised from the name. MaxED never asked if I was ok with it, when I noticed that this thing existed it was too late, and I would never have agreed with it if asked. If you want to make it look better, use another prefix.

How about "Ultimate Doom Builder". It not only implies something better but is also a nice play on the title of Doom 1's first re-release.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby axredneck » Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:40 pm

Then i'm for GLDoomBuilder
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