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Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:25 am
by Valherran
Let's hope they actually get this one right so that it can be a true successor to Doom 2.

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:49 am
by eharper256
Valherran wrote:Let's hope they actually get this one right so that it can be a true successor to Doom 2.

Huh? D2016 was actually really good though? It kept the original games spirit and added modern sensibilities and things the masses expect from an FPS these days. (Well, the Multiplayer was shit, but you can't have everything).

Personally I'm excited to see what they do with Eternal. Though I'll have problems calling it Eternal. I'll call it "Doom 2: Two: Hell on Earth: Yet Again [And you thought the Doomslayer got a vacation, ha!]" :lol:

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:43 pm
by Valherran
Huh? D2016 was actually really good though? It kept the original games spirit and added modern sensibilities and things the masses expect from an FPS these days.


Not quite, it was OK at best. They missed one real important key thing, and that is monster placement. Sure you might find a few mobs here and there wandering around, but the vast majority always teleported all around you in an arena-like area (because the area seals all exits when this happens. And you can tell when you are about to get swarmed because there is items laying around everywhere, which makes it way too predictable. My second beef was the difficulty, even on the easy setting you can get wrecked so easily. Why they made Doomguy (or Doomslayer) made of tissue paper is beyond me.

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:10 pm
by Pixel Eater
I found it difficult but I think that was because It was my first time using the XBox controller. I wish they would hurry up and support mouse input -or- release DooM on Mac.

The only gripes I actually recall are audio related. The music did not suit DooM, and where were the pained grunts? I could never tell if any pain was being inflicted on the enemy or myself!

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:59 am
by eharper256
Valherran wrote:
Huh? D2016 was actually really good though? It kept the original games spirit and added modern sensibilities and things the masses expect from an FPS these days.


Not quite, it was OK at best. They missed one real important key thing, and that is monster placement. Sure you might find a few mobs here and there wandering around, but the vast majority always teleported all around you in an arena-like area (because the area seals all exits when this happens. And you can tell when you are about to get swarmed because there is items laying around everywhere, which makes it way too predictable. My second beef was the difficulty, even on the easy setting you can get wrecked so easily. Why they made Doomguy (or Doomslayer) made of tissue paper is beyond me.

I only died about half a dozen times on HMP (never played UV, mind you). Doomguy was never really about tanking hits, it was about using his olympian agility to dodge stuff. This is the case in classic doom as well. As long as you kept dashing, strafing, ripping and tearing (glory killing), your health was relatively easy to sustain (though I hear Glory Killing in Nightmare was a bad idea), and the chainsaw could even give you a pinyata boost. It even got quite silly in the lategame if you got the mastery/challenge combo that gave you unlimited ammo when above 100 armour, and the chaingun in turret mode with the infinite cooling upgrade (or Gauss Cannon Siege Mode).

I do agree there could have been more monster placement rather than teleport ambush arenas, though. Mick Gordon's music had its moments, but its true I don't remember much of it besides the callback riff to the original in the elevator. I also do remember pinkie and zombie pain noises, but not alot of the others. I think they were muted against the exagerrated splatter and shooting noises. And yes, Doomguy was unfortunately silent and your suit used to bleep at you on taking hits instead, which was a bit of a shame. But Doomguys personality did still come through in his entertaining rage cutscene moments quite often. I'll always remember laughing at 'This can help save the energy crisis so could you please just...' <<DOOMGUY SMASH!>>

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:08 am
by Pixel Eater
I'll always remember laughing at 'This can help save the energy crisis so could you please just...' <<DOOMGUY SMASH!>>
Yeah that was a nice touch :lol:

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 4:33 am
by Valherran
Doomguy was never really about tanking hits, it was about using his olympian agility to dodge stuff. This is the case in classic doom as well. As long as you kept dashing, strafing, ripping and tearing (glory killing), your health was relatively easy to sustain


I know that, but the enemies were really fast and very aggressive, and some projectiles were super fast too, plus the layouts of the maps which made it more difficult to dodge and avoid incoming fire than it should have been.

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:57 pm
by RedoLane
Already got a nice name if you plan to bring all the Doom Eternal stuff as a new mod:
Doom(2016) = D4D
Doom Eternal = E4C(Eternal for Classic)
Alternately, you can name it as Classic Eternity

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:38 pm
by Pixel Eater
RedoLane wrote:Already got a nice name if you plan to bring all the Doom Eternal stuff as a new mod:
Doom(2016) = D4D
Doom Eternal = E4C(Eternal for Classic)
Alternately, you can name it as Classic Eternity

Nah-ahhh! It should be called DeuxM :lol:

Edit: Or worse- DeuxM Dos. But that will be in a thousand years when DooM 22 comes out on the new DOS and everyone speaks "Franish".

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:05 pm
by Major Cooke
DE4D.
In fact I think that's what D4D v4 is going to be called.
:mrgreen:

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:12 pm
by Pixel Eater
Major Cooke wrote:DE4D. :mrgreen:

That's simply perfect!

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:43 pm
by RedoLane
Major Cooke wrote:DE4D.
In fact I think that's what D4D v4 is going to be called.
:mrgreen:


Holy shit that's actually pretty clever!

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:34 am
by Major Cooke
Thanks!

There's going to be a new update coming out which addresses a few pitfalls with slaughtermaps. The on-off master switch for monster effects will become a high/medium/low quality selector. Set to low will outright disable all projectile trails and all cvar checking is being optimized. In particular the revenant is guilty of this. The "medium" effect is what will be the current "off" toggle, while low is going to remove trails and special stuff entirely. Just like good ol' doom. They'll have a bit of a bigger projectile so its easier to notice too.

Furthermore, beams are being converted to models. Cuts down on the actor count directly in half.

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:44 pm
by DevilBlackDeath
Valherran wrote:
Huh? D2016 was actually really good though? It kept the original games spirit and added modern sensibilities and things the masses expect from an FPS these days.


Not quite, it was OK at best. They missed one real important key thing, and that is monster placement. Sure you might find a few mobs here and there wandering around, but the vast majority always teleported all around you in an arena-like area (because the area seals all exits when this happens. And you can tell when you are about to get swarmed because there is items laying around everywhere, which makes it way too predictable. My second beef was the difficulty, even on the easy setting you can get wrecked so easily. Why they made Doomguy (or Doomslayer) made of tissue paper is beyond me.


Do you happen to like D4T or D4D ? Because I mean, they're the same except for enemy placement ;) Actually D4T is much worse when it comes to difficulty. Normal has monsters pretty much doing something between UV and N damages from Doom 2016 and Hard is actually way harder than 2016's Nightmare ;)

IMHO I feel the arena style is a good thing and brings old school mechanics (true, not introduced by Doom, but still old school) to new gamers. Also it allowed for pretty fluid combat that forced you to be constantly on the move, even more so than Classic Doom where you can sometime sidestep in/out of cover to clear rooms. Overall I think the game kept a great balance of old and new and finally brought an interesting FPS to the table, where skill, speed and fun are at the core ^^

Obviously that's just my opinion and I can completely get you don't like it, I just wanted to write because I felt like enemy placement and knowing where arena will be felt kind of nitpicky, but that's just my 2 cents :D

Can't wait for Eternal Foretold and Eternal 4 Doom personnally, if Eternal brings in some new fun mechanics !

I just hope they replace the SSG, in the trailer it feels like it came right out of Quake Champions especially with the hammers behind the barrels :S

Re: D4D - v3 Alpha 7 - DOOM Eternal p.40

PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:31 pm
by SiFi270
did someone say eternal foretold