Brutal Strife - BETA Released

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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:08 pm

Dynamo wrote:Given as there's so few maps for strife and you have mapping talent I think you should just make new maps for strife instead. Again, just my opinion.


Because I like Strife's campaign. Because I like the plot. Because I like the current maps, and I don't think it needs better maps atm, and I just thinks it just needs a better stealth system, a better combat system, and better effects.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Blox » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:13 pm

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:A better stealth system, a better combat system, and better effects.

Where in that does "Brutal" come in, as much as that'd be Strifenhanced? :P
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Nightfall » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:14 pm

Let's see here:
  • out-of-place resources from Doom and Hexen (wtf is hexen music doing in strife??)
  • exactly the same gore and effects as in brutal doom, seen these already...
  • recolored doom 2 sky..
  • electric crossbow kills painfully in 1-2 hits, where's the skill involved?
  • what's with the flamer? would've expected it to be a hard-to-use close-range heavy hitter, not your typical hollywood flamer..
  • i could swear this mini-missile launcher is just a resprited brutal doom rocket launcher
  • no distinction between heavy and phosphorus grenade launchers... they also look like necrodome weapons with no editing involved
  • what's doom nukage and water doing in strife?
  • the new sounds sound nothing like strife, they stick out like a sore thumb
  • the list goes on and on.. and this was compiled in 3 minutes
Last edited by Nightfall on Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Dynamo » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:15 pm

Blox wrote:
Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:A better stealth system, a better combat system, and better effects.

Where in that does "Brutal" come in, as much as that'd be Strifenhanced? :P

Exactly. You don't need random fountains of out of place gore to make a better stealth system.
Last edited by Dynamo on Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Springy » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:17 pm

Just tried it I have to say it doesn't really fit Strife to well to be honest. I think the players speed looks out of place in Strife, the added gore doesn't really fit either and is just recycled from Brutal Doom which is a little disappointing and out of place. I do like the better stealth system however and some of the weapon effects. I think it would be better if you just focused on improving the effects (i.e making new effects not reusing them) and leave the gore out personally.
EDIT: Is this arguing really necessary?
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Re: Merry Fucking Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Eric_ » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:26 pm

I played your mod. The gore and explosion effects are, as they were in Brutal Hexen, the same stuff from Brutal Doom. The music in the town is replaced...with what I think is Hexen music, which doesn't fit with the rest of the unreplaced music at all. The knife animation wasn't bad, but nothing special. I killed the first two acolytes with no resistance. Literally 0 damage taken. Mind you, in vanilla Strife they usually manage to shoot me at least once. Not impressed so far. I got the electric crossbow, which for some reason has a really bad-looking animation. I shot the first acolyte in the sanctuary and he died in one hit. No resistance in the entire level. Whenever I came across an acolyte, he was dead in a single bolt. The crossbow didn't really feel any different from the vanilla one, except it instakilled Acolytes. Shouldn't that be the job of the poison bolts? Well, whatever, might as well just give all and see everything else...

Oh, there's no poison bolts. That's annoying. Fairly sure someone else did that extended assault gun sprite. The effects continue to be identical to the ones in Brutal Doom. The sounds are the same. It's just Brutal Doom reskinned for Strife. What a shame. I'd rather see a new mapset, because there's already a couple Strife gameplay mods out there as opposed to one or two mapsets. The grenade launcher shoots phosphorous grenades and the phosphorous grenade launcher shoots normal grenades. Or is it the other way around? I can't tell, because somebody used the same sprite for both weapons! The flamer's boring and lost any uniqueness it had from vanilla Strife.

All in all, I think I'd rather play UACMN. At least that has some original ideas in it.
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Re: Merry Fucking Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby twinkieman93 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:42 pm

You know, I hate to board the Hate Train, but I'm gonna hop on at this stop. Brutal Strife really shouldn't be a thing. As many people pointed out, Strife isn't exactly about mowing down lots of guys really fast. The gameplay is still quick, but it's much more methodical and a lot more planning has to go into it so that you come out with a decent amount of health. Sure, it could use some balancing, but the things you've changed quintessentially change the game, moreso than I'd like. For example, the electric bolts stunning organic enemies? Do you realize how overpowered that is? The mooks are supposed to be fearsome, it's genuinely convincing that the Order could actually rule the world that way. Unlike Doom, I can't believe that Doomguy, who is billed as your average marine(HA!), is the only one able to stop Hell. Now, though, you've made them a lot more like typical mooks. Weak, and basically meat to chop up for the player's amusement.

I also concur with the sentiment that changing the stealth mechanics, while making it more like other games, is also a detrimental change. The thing in Strife is, once your cover's blown, it's blown. There's no way to get your anonymity back once that alarm starts buzzing, and I think anyone who's a fan of Strife can appreciate that.

That said, a lot of people seemed to say "omg more gorefest oh nooooooo" immediately. I will say, you guys, that at least for the early weapons, the gore is actually kinda minimal compared to the other mods in the Brutal series. Did you even actually try it? Not that you have to, you're welcome to formulate an opinion on something with as much information as you'd like, but be fair. I was.

That said, I personally take offense to some of the texture changes. The sky is SUPPOSED to be clear in town until you conquer the castle. I think they have some sort of hologram thingy or something to trick the peasants into thinking everything's okay. It's never explicitly mentioned, but given that the sky turns blood motherfucking red after you give the Order the ol' heave-ho, it's implied. And the toxic waste texture doesn't fit in this because it's supposed to be sewage, not acid.

It is rather fun, don't get me wrong. The previously mentioned, by Wool, kidnapping mechanic is pretty awesome. However, there's kind of a flaw with it... why can't I just go through the entire game with Mourel nestled in the crook of my arm? Instant victory, because the guards won't shoot.

One last thought: The most glaring error you made was making the assault rifle actually have decent accuracy out of the box. There's a REASON it isn't like that initially. The thing about Strife is, you progressively improve over the course of the game, and at the end, you're actually more powerful than the characters of other Doom engine games. If you just give me the good shit right at the beginning, then I have far less of a reason to play.

What Strife needs is a gameplay polishing mod, not a gameplay altering mod. I love you, Mark, but I'm gonna have to suggest you keep your mitts off Strife.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby -Ghost- » Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:55 pm

Since we're on the topic of Strife, what gameplay mods *do* you guys recommend for it that just enhance the regular gameplay? I've been looking around, but there don't seem to be a whole lot. That's why in a way I'm glad we have these Brutal mods, in that they're adding mods to games that barely have any community content, though I agree with most of your criticisms above for Brutal Strife.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby The Zombie Killer » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:12 pm

@Ghost
Endless Strife is a really good one, Brutal Strife should take a couple of ideas from that.

@Haters
While I agree with some of your opinions, the way you're trying to get your point across is very asshole-ish.
If you're trying to express things, try to do it in a nicer way, if you don't like it, edit the mod yourself, or ignore it altogether, nuff said!
EDIT: And also, it's a BETA for a reason!

-MBF
Last edited by The Zombie Killer on Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby SamVision » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:12 pm

I think it works fine with Hexen, even with Heretic. But feels really out of place with Strife.
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Re: Merry Fucking Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby wildweasel » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:29 pm

Many, many posts have been split into a locked thread in off-topic, because I'd much rather discussion be about the actual mod, and not needless attacks and petty arguments.
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Re: Merry Fucking Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby QuickShotGunman » Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:40 pm

I was thinking of having a normal punch instead of the dagger.
Then you can get the dagger later on.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby Enjay » Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:00 pm

Meh! I like it. It has some nice features a few of which are actually quite subtle.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby WallyTheBoogieBug » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:31 pm

QuickShotGunman wrote:I was thinking of having a normal punch instead of the dagger.
Then you can get the dagger later on.


That's actually a great idea - I think that more weapons would fit Strife's roleplaying game-ish nature quite well.

I'm imagining a lot of new, small, variant weapons, like perhaps an SMG to go along with the assault rifle, that has slightly different stats that maybe stealth players would prefer.

And you have a limited number of slots which can only hold one variant at a time. Perhaps 1-2 variants on the normal weapons per slot, which fill different niches.
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Re: Merry kek'n Xmas: Brutal Strife - First Alpha

Postby -Ghost- » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:33 pm

That'd be pretty cool.
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