Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.10.0 Beta]

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Kyle873
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Kyle873 »

Vigilante wrote:I played latest version for the first 24 maps of plutonia 2 on intermediate difficulty, ended up level 47, something like 3 hours of play in two sittings.
The combo bonus is so important (especially when the "chain" includes boss monsters) that the game quickly resolves into finding how to abuse it.
From earlier this year I had already seen how buying a "rune of plenty" is a cheap and guaranteed huge combo in big maps if you have a non-empty BFG. But very awkward to use the buy menu each time, so I didn't try this time.
First thing I learnt was improving STR until a single DB shot can kill most Doom2 monsters (from caco to hell knight), then make sure each shot kills one of them - or kills a zombi and wounds a larger demon.
Second was using the white aura, which ends up the only worthwhile one. I made the huge mistake of increasing it to level 2 (double the cost for no significant benefit), but still, around level 30 I started maximizing STR and ENERGY, and I could re-cast the aura when it was nearly empty, continuing a combo for many minutes (watch aura counter from time to time, count remaining seconds in my head) Combo counter doesn't reset on map start, so if you cast aura immediatley you can continue the chain! My biggest chain was in the 500s before I actually ran out of energy, and I gained 3 levels at a time.
I feel I've done everything I wanted to try with the combo system, and now it annoys me more than anything...
If I have a sugestion for a variant that I find much less a hassle, it would be a "bloodlust" skill/effect that scales player's (damage/speed/thoughness/whatever) according to a counter that increases whenever a blood splat appears (usually caused by player, but infighting and player wounds may count, why not?), and constantly reduces over time. : This "frenzy level" would increase when player is in active fighting, and slowly reduce to nothingness in a lull. Every single bullet would 'count', and the timing would be less "all-or-nothing" than the current combo game - where zombies and imps are the only ones that count until you reach unbalanced parts.

Generally, I find it a pity that you have put many new complex game elements, and yet I find not so many things to play with...
- Armors fill up the inventory over time : you only ever need the best one, but the game doesn't give you an option to clean (sell?) the rest.
- Health also fills up the inventory, though this might be a balance issue. Still, the total amount of items makes it impossible to select a "contextual use" item during fight: invuln when you're dying, radsuit if you accidentally fall in lava.
- exp gives points that you can put in a stat that gives your more exp... how does it make the game better than if it didn't exist :/ ?
- increasable player run speed : I put zero points, and was annoyed with the permanent rainbow bonus : faster player is harder to control precisely (shooting near pillars etc.) so this stat breaks the RPG rule 'bigger should be better, not worse'
- The cost of most/all auras too, as well as heal skill (higher level shouldn't have same or worse "effect divided by cost")
- increasing the damage by a huge factor makes ammo plentiful for bullets/shotgun. Soon, maps have many times what you need to kill all the monsters they contain. Cells have lesser effect due to bfg overkill, rockets I'm not sure because I killed myself a few times (self-damage scales?) and used them less. The game effects that speeds up the player animation doesn't have this problem, because you eat the same ammo to do the same damage.

What you've started with shields is interesting, though I didn't find an other shield until level 30. How about having some vary player speed (slow down but better defense) and mass (makes player less vulnerable to pushing, very useful on some tricky platforms where a fireball can push you to death : these give options that are interesting for specific places or maps. If you had one that protects from self-damage that would be nice too :) rocket-jumper armor.

About health and armor, a simplification would be to make the pickups fill two counters on the player, medic supplies and armor materials, if the player is already at full health and fully repaired armor when he picks them. Then either a player command or automatic gradual effect would draw from these counters to perform healing and repair - how fast or efficiently could depend on skill.

The runes are nice though I don't understand all of them (Time stop oO), THEY are what the upgradable skills should be, selected and launched through the standard inventory system which is more handy than the skill menu...
- I've just added an option to completely disable the Combo system
- I'm also thinking of nerfing Strength so it'll only max out at 200% Damage
- The combo counter now resets between levels
- I'm going to add it so that skills cost more EP as the skill level goes up
- I'll see what I can do about this bloodlust idea.

- You can sell items by pressing the Run key
- I'm actually contemplating just removing the Proficiency stat and White Aura altogether
- The health and armor materials idea is pretty good, but I imagine it'll be impossible to make it work well with armor due to the way save percentage on pickups work
- There are configurable keys to change the skill catagory and index while in game, you don't have to use the menu to select them

edit:
- Lowered the time on the Time Sphere from 12-13 seconds to 5 seconds, that way getting a bunch of them in a row won't be so OP now, and you have less actual frozen time as time starts to come back sooner
- Switched white enemies to drop random tokens and purple enemies now drop shield boosters
Vigilante
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Vigilante »

Thanks for reading my wall of text :) I hope I didn't bother you... Many of my suggestions don't fit your current line of work, I'm more emitting ideas for "a different approach could have been...", maybe for an other Mod/experiment.
I forgot about run to sell items, in the plutonia2 map which has acid-death-exit it was quite long to eat up all my health bonuses :)
About armors, an alternative gameplay mechanism could be that the colored armors are proposed in the list of "shield bodies" (ie after you have bought one green armor, you keep it forever). If armors affect differently the stat "repair cost", it could be cheaper to repair low armors than on high-tier ones. By cheaper, I mean the same map pickup that repairs a green armor 100% would repair a white one 10% only. With such mechanism, the player should keep an eye on his armor supplies (a single number), and if he feels he's running low, he can switch to a worse armor that doesn't eat supplies so fast, until he has stocked up a little.
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Kyle873
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Kyle873 »

Vigilante wrote:in the plutonia2 map which has acid-death-exit it was quite long to eat up all my health bonuses :)
Which map is that? I will have it use my XLAT which bypasses those types of rooms (E1L8, for example)
Vigilante wrote:About armors, an alternative gameplay mechanism could be that the colored armors are proposed in the list of "shield bodies" (ie after you have bought one green armor, you keep it forever). If armors affect differently the stat "repair cost", it could be cheaper to repair low armors than on high-tier ones. By cheaper, I mean the same map pickup that repairs a green armor 100% would repair a white one 10% only. With such mechanism, the player should keep an eye on his armor supplies (a single number), and if he feels he's running low, he can switch to a worse armor that doesn't eat supplies so fast, until he has stocked up a little.
This could probably be done, although it'll involve a crapload of ACS.
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-Ghost-
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by -Ghost- »

An STR cap might be good, it just ends up being too powerful, though I guess player self-restraint is important too. I agree that the health/armor system still feels off. I'm not sure what to do to fix it, it just feels weird carrying so many items. Can you tie it into the capacity stat/having a backpack?
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Valherran
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Valherran »

-Ghost- wrote:An STR cap might be good, it just ends up being too powerful, though I guess player self-restraint is important too. I agree that the health/armor system still feels off. I'm not sure what to do to fix it, it just feels weird carrying so many items. Can you tie it into the capacity stat/having a backpack?
I wouldn't cap it, but make it a hefty cost in stat points to upgrade it. As for the items, they need to drop very VERY rarely. I often have at least 10 of every armor type in my inventory, along with other stuff I never use.
Kyle873 wrote:
Valherran wrote:On the subject of shop, will there be any additions to it? All it currently does is allow you to buy weapons and that's it...
Turn on "Shop Anywhere" in the options to be able to change shop pages.
All options appear as "UNKNOWN" and cannot be modified. :?
Vigilante
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Vigilante »

Kyle873 wrote:
Vigilante wrote:in the plutonia2 map which has acid-death-exit it was quite long to eat up all my health bonuses :)
Which map is that? I will have it use my XLAT which bypasses those types of rooms (E1L8, for example)
Plutonia has it in MAP11 has a "wrong exit" :
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP11:_Hunte ... eriment%29
Plutonia 2 has it at least twice : MAP11 as the only way to exit the level :
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP11:_Arch- ... tonia_2%29
And MAP28 as the "wrong exit" :
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/MAP28:_The_B ... tonia_2%29

Anyway, don't bother tracking them all... Let players use the changemap console command to navigate a megaWAD if needed.
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-Ghost-
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by -Ghost- »

Can't you turn off the automatic medkit usage? Or are you talking just having a ton of health?
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Guardsoul
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Guardsoul »

I´ve got a little issue with the shop system: I can´t simply change the page where I am, I mean, I cant go to pages 2, 3, .... etc etc. Anyone can help me with this?
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karmakazi
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by karmakazi »

Go into the doomrpg options field and turn on shop anywhere.
Anyway, about this playbalance thing, I think to a certain degree "too much" strength is highly dependent on the difficulty setting, and the map. Most rpg's start you out pathetically low on the totem pole and advance until at endgame you are a roflstomping god with all the monies and the honeys. If you pick a high enough difficulty, this can be somewhat emulated. Is it possible to apply the player stat system to the monsters and scale them to the players level? Not in the Oblivion sense of suddenly you're level fifty and have to save every time you see a couple of imps, mind you, but give the monsters a fighting chance? One thing that feels really limiting in some rpg's is a lot of arbitrary boundaries forced upon the player to maintain playbalance. Perhaps adjusting things on the monster end would limit this impact.
I'm going to add it so that skills cost more EP as the skill level goes up
Maybe with some bonus reduction with higher energy skill?
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Valherran
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Valherran »

karmakazi wrote:Go into the doomrpg options field and turn on shop anywhere.
All options appear as "UNKNOWN" and cannot be modified. :?
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Kyle873
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Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Kyle873 »

Valherran wrote:
karmakazi wrote:Go into the doomrpg options field and turn on shop anywhere.
All options appear as "UNKNOWN" and cannot be modified. :?
Restore to defaults, restart ZDoom.

Unfortunately, applying the stat system to the monsters is impossible.
Vigilante
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Vigilante »

I had the same problem repeatedly, until I manually removed the sections in the .ini that refers to "RPG", and repeated the process.
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Kyle873
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Kyle873 »

Vigilante wrote:I had the same problem repeatedly, until I manually removed the sections in the .ini that refers to "RPG", and repeated the process.
Ugh, yeah. I wish the CVARS weren't such a pain in the ass. I really need to look into a way to maybe fix this.

edit:
Update

Added customizable quick Heal, quick Armor, and quick Ammo keys.

- Quick Heal will use the highest tier healing item that you have
- Quick Armor will apply the armor you have with the best damage absorption rate
- Quick ammo will buy a clip's worth of ammo for your current weapon, but only if you have the money, and your ammo isn't full
- Also fixed a few bugs, as usual
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karmakazi
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by karmakazi »

Unfortunately, applying the stat system to the monsters is impossible.
oh well. it was a thought.
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Ribo Zurai
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Re: Kyle873's Doom RPG Mod [0.8 Beta]

Post by Ribo Zurai »

For some reason I can't walk/run anymore.

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