Samsara - No longer under active development.

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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby FireSeraphim » Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:10 am

I don't care what category this may fall under, But If you just considering just two more heroes for samsara, I will vote for Caleb being one of them. He needs more love.

"I like my hands bloody!"
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby Kinsie » Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:19 am

ETTiNGRiNDER wrote:The ports are not very, well, portable. The only one I've tried that I managed to get to work at all on Windows 7 64-bit is TyrQuake, which is so minimal you might as well use the original exe. Darkplaces and FitzQuake, which are supposedly the good ports, both die instantly on trying to start them up, without even a useful error message.

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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby Xaser » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:43 am

Kinsie wrote:How does it feel to be so wrong?

I take it you snuck over to his house and took the screenshot from his machine, then?
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby Kinsie » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:50 am

Xaser wrote:
Kinsie wrote:How does it feel to be so wrong?

I take it you snuck over to his house and took the screenshot from his machine, then?
Not my fault that he's trying to run Windows 7 on a NeXT cube.

Anyway...

One option is a major cult classic: Marathon.
One option was an immense hit but now has a terrible source port: Marathon again.
One option lost its source completely: Blood.
One option paved in a new direction entirely the way for the industry: Super Mario 64.
One option is known for pretty much just one good game: Mass Effect.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby TerminusEst13 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:14 pm

One option paved in a new direction entirely the way for the industry: Super Mario 64.

Shit! I was hoping to keep it secret! Ssshhh, don't tell anyone.

Then why limit number of classes to 7?

1: As Gez said, it's much easier to balance only seven characters. It'd be nice to have a giant FPS crossover with every major franchise under the sun, but but buuut. The big thing is to make sure every character has a different role in combat and that they work in a different way, not to mention are balanced for DM/CTF/co-op play.
2: Ensures a relatively reasonable filesize. Including all of their sounds, sprites, and adding new HUD graphics can seriously bloat a filesize. There are, of course, 100+ meg mods out there, or even 50+ meg mods, but I really don't want the filesize to get that high. The next hero as it is will be drastically increasing filesize with all of his sounds, but thankfully the hero after him is very quiet.
3: As you said, Zandronum only supports seven characters on the select screen, and considering the biggest goal about Samsara is compatibility I want to accommodate people who play offline. Considering how many people don't even read the MOTD, I'd not be surprised if they had no clue how to access further characters.
4: Every mod needs a sort of goal line to achieve, a sort of finish in sight to work towards rather than just adding, adding, adding, adding over and over. I want to avoid feature bloat.

Is seven a hard, cemented, unmovable unbudging limit? Well, no. I'm hesitant to put any solid deadline or borders on this, especially considering it's not even past beta. Hell, depending on how discussions with a certain friendly neighborhood modder go, there may be a secret eighth character.
But for now, I'm content with seven. It's a nice number.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby TerminusEst13 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:22 pm

Here's a preview of something I have in mind for v0.19.
One of the biggest surprises I've had in regards to Samsara is how many people play offline in singleplayer. Samsara was designed primarily with multiplayer co-op/DM in mind, but I've been told a lot of people have been having a lot of fun playing by themselves and going through levels in singleplayer.
Being that one of the biggest goals of Samsara is compatibility, I want to address one of the biggest complaints people have talked about in singleplayer.



In singleplayer mode, universal weapon drops are now replaced with character-specific weapon drops.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby DoomRater » Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:21 pm

I'm still having trouble understanding why frost shards only costs 1. It was a fuckload for Daedolon.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby ChronoSeth » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:24 pm

DoomRater wrote:I'm still having trouble understanding why frost shards only costs 1. It was a fuckload for Daedolon.

I'm guessing that it uses shotgun-class ammo. It only used 3 mana in Hexen, which meant 66 shots with full ammo.

Edit: or maybe not... the video makes it look like he only uses the two mana types. :?
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby TerminusEst13 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:49 pm

When compared to Timon's Axe, I think the Frost Shards actually come up kind of lacking.
Timon's Axe takes only two mana and does between 80-124 damage, which is a pretty brutal average of 102. The Frost Shards on the other hand, assuming all the shards hit, do a mere 17-136, which has a higher maximum damage but has a woefully smaller average of 76.5--and that's assuming all of the shards hit. Its melee attack has a more reasonable average, doing between 90-115 damage and having an average of 102.5, but Timon's Axe's melee has a much much much longer range.
I didn't think it was good to give the weaker weapon a higher cost, though if you think it's more reasonable I could be convinced to give it a buff instead.

the video makes it look like he only uses the two mana types. :S

Yup. Clip/Shell ammo is converted to Mana 1, Rocket/Cell ammo is converted to Mana 2.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby DoomRater » Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:33 am

Huh and to think I always made sure the shards came out because it seemed like it took three melee blasts to freeze something when it only took two of all shards to do it otherwise. turns out the melee has the better average. but what's the serpent staff do?
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby HexaDoken » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:19 am

Serpent Staff is quite overpowered. The damage values are fine, but the healing ability is just friggin op. Are you damaged, dear Parias? Go melee some imps with serpent staff and you're back in action in no time. Seriously, until I punched myself in the face and forced myself to NOT use the staff in melee, I died very rarely. And that is in Hell Revealed 2, where normally I die 30-40 times per map.

Also, can there be an altfire for frost shards? A quick Sapphire Wand shot, an incredibly weak punch, anything? The thing is that ice statues keep breaking the pace for me, as every few seconds I have to stop shooting, take any other weapon, get rid of statues, get frost shards back, and resume carnage. I know it's not really true to the original game, but the statues breaking the pace really annoys me.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby TerminusEst13 » Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:01 pm

but what's the serpent staff do?

In HeXen, it fires two bolts that do between 5-40 damage, for a total of 10-80 damage if both hit (average of 45). For firing every ten tics, this is pretty damned brutal, considering Doomguy's chaingun spews off 5/10/15 damage every four tics. The equivalent damage value (average of 10 x 2.5 the Chaingun's tic time) would be 25, so the Serpent Staff's bolts were nerfed to do between 4-20 damage instead for a total of 8-40 (average of 24).
As for the Serpent's Staff melee, it's definitely not a flat 20 but it's somewhere around there. You can pretty much always kill an imp in three hits, though sometimes two so I think there's a slight bit of randomization involved. Either way, it's 20-ish every ten tics, healing between 2 to 3 health every hit. These values were absurdly low, especially considering how powerful the ranged attack was, so I changed it to about 5-6 health every 8 tics.

I'm agreeing with Hexa, though, I think it was a bit too much. While the melee attack is now a viable alternative, doing a whole 0.8 more DPS than the ranged attack (whooooo less than 1 yaaaay), it never was the main draw in HeXen--the main draw was the heal. And now, even if you're unlucky and roll all 5s and are at the lowest possible health level, it takes about 2.29 seconds (80 tics) to heal you up to full.

EDIT:
Also, can there be an altfire for frost shards? A quick Sapphire Wand shot, an incredibly weak punch, anything? The thing is that ice statues keep breaking the pace for me, as every few seconds I have to stop shooting, take any other weapon, get rid of statues, get frost shards back, and resume carnage. I know it's not really true to the original game, but the statues breaking the pace really annoys me.

I'm currently experimenting with how ice attacks can break frozen enemies as well. So you can keep shooting ice and the statues will break under the attacks.
It may not make it into 0.19 as there's some, uh, upsetting bugs, but I'm definitely working on it.
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby DoomRater » Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:47 pm

I think the point of the serpent staff was to be a cheaper ranged mana weapon than frost shards. And dear god you buffed it a lot. 2-3 health is PLENTY, especially if you lower the damage value of the melee attack. After all the point was to get as much health as possible, not kill the thing as fast as possible!
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby Ethril » Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:27 pm

HexaDoken wrote:Also, can there be an altfire for frost shards? A quick Sapphire Wand shot, an incredibly weak punch, anything? The thing is that ice statues keep breaking the pace for me, as every few seconds I have to stop shooting, take any other weapon, get rid of statues, get frost shards back, and resume carnage. I know it's not really true to the original game, but the statues breaking the pace really annoys me.


The standard melee weapons (fist, boot spoon, mace of contrition, etc.) could be made into an altfire shared by each weapon, which would actually be incredibly convenient when you don't have time to switch away from your rocket launcher, but that might be deviating a bit too much from the original gameplay.
(if Duke Nukem is ever added you'd totally have to do this though what with the Mighty Foot and all)
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Re: Samsara - v0.18 - I'm gonna have to punch someone tonigh

Postby HexaDoken » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:28 am

The damage values of Serpent Staff are quite fine. It does a good weapon against doggamn zombies, especially since you cannot dodge bullets, so closing in and timon axing the brains out of them is a bad idea. Also a golden middle between Hammer and Wand - cheaper than former, effective than latter. It's just the healing properties that need to be nerfed like by 6 times.
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