Doom sprites HD (8x) version v03 released

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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Amuscaria » Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:25 am

The filter being used on these sprites really degrades the images (those very noticeable diagonal lines). I'm not sure if you're just using those to blur the HR-version for later reworking, or it's actually the final product. But it makes the images look very flat and completed removes any sense of depth (like being pastel-colored over a really rough canvas).
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Blox » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:34 am

The reason to why I didn't comment on them, is because I find that they look really bad.

Reason to that is, as pointed out, most of the sprite looks like filter-molested shizz.
And the faces are usually unfittingly plastered in.

Image

There we see a poor high-resolution sprite I pulled out of my arse in about 40 minutes.
Quite unpolished, though still decent looking. Do note that I said 40 minutes. Plus 20-60 minutes depending on the sprite. So if we say 70 minutes per sprite, that's going to be 42 hours straight.
And this is some poor quality work.

Of course I have tried to do this, but motivation/will to fulfill tedious tasks (look at that pixelated asdfsd we call a face, argh!) took over.
Spoiler: Examples here.

So yeah, unless you get a whole team on it, don't count on anything appealing. As every time I raised the detail meter, the time required to finish a sprite skyrocketed. (The last one took, maybe 4-8 hours?)

And by "made like that" I mean using the smudge tool from GIMP/Paint Shop Pro to shape it out, and detail it. (The first one was a 85% smudgerito though.)
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby thief666 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:22 pm

Yeah that the problem with hi res sprites. Even hi res IMP created by ID software was flamed for looking like “anorectic punk” – personally I agree with las comment.

So the thing is that if you wanna go HD there has to be some elements added and not eceryone will like it.

Aternatively orginal sprites can be just VECTOR SCALED (VECTOR SCALING is superior to sprite filtering ) this software automatically smoothes edges and adds pixels based on some black magic vector algorithms.

Then some shadows can be added like in Sergeant’s example, maybe slightly less to keep with orginal and resulting sprite should be 99% like original only totally edge – smooth, way less pixelized and looking reasonably better than engine-filtered sprites.

Benefit of this way will be that everyone should accept such sprites, thay are VERY fast to make, and thay will allow to add some HD gore elements like more detailed death animations blood, guts, gibs in mods like BrutalDoom.

When it comes to workload – I was able to create full set of sprites for IMP, Demon nad shotgun guy in 2 weeks, working 2 hours per day so its definitely doable.

PS as for shotugun guy this is just on frame facial expression when he shoots at you, other frames his mouth is closed.
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Hellser » Wed Sep 21, 2011 1:57 pm

thief666 wrote:Aternatively orginal sprites can be just VECTOR SCALED (VECTOR SCALING is superior to sprite filtering ) this software automatically smoothes edges and adds pixels based on some black magic vector algorithms.


That's the problem. Vector (to me: SVG Graphics) is limited, and used mainly for cartoon shows and text work, not full on sprites because of its limitations. Sure, it can be nice and smooth, and rather sharp at any resolution. But it cannot blend as nicely as doing everything by hand. You can smooth everything else your self, but the fact still stands that it has been filtered. You ran it through a program to convert a Doom-size sprite into 8x its normal size to add additional features to the sprite. It's still called filtering.

In the end, you're stuck loading this up in ZDooM with the original palette -- sorry, True Color Format isn't fully supported in ZDooM -- and with GZDooM, you can toss in 3D Models which provides an even better depth. We (the community) seen these before. Many, many times, they seem nice at first, but in the end, they're abandoned.

Your choice to continue. Infact, go right ahead, to better YOUR self. But this isn't going to go far, and you do realize that there are a total of 503 sprites (Death, Standing, Walking, Shooting) animations for the original DooM monsters, right? .. and that you have to do this filtering / modification to each one?

Oh, and.. One wouldn't have much time to enjoy the prettiness of the monsters. Generally, we shoot them, run over their corpse for ammo, and exit. That's why the community hasn't evolved much. :lol:
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby TerminusEst13 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:25 pm

Oh, and.. One wouldn't have much time to enjoy the prettiness of the monsters. Generally, we shoot them, run over their corpse for ammo, and exit.


I disagree. There's been a couple enemies I went ~notarget on so I could admire their frames. And spent a little too much time over their corpse.
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby thief666 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:42 pm

hey, first of all promised in-game screenshot with polished IMP (by Sergeant_mark-IV) and higher -res super shotgun.
Differnece is not huge, just noticeable. Now granted that not everyone likes HD changes in sprites (different head, too pronounced shadows)
its possible to make sprites like originals, without HD elements, just vector scaled and polished with sergeants method with less pronounced shadows.(if he teaches me).
Its doable time-wise. I have already vector -scaled and added HD elements to 150 out of those 500 sprites. In 2 weeks.

Image
.
For me there is no doubt that original sprite is more flat, I dont really see crappy lines you mentioned on HD sprite etc etc.
I understand that new sprites are be crappy for some, they are not masterpieces but just pixel-wise, depth - wise HD sprite in screen above is not complete garbage i think..

Here is a little fun, its one version of new sprite, in which I decreased pixel count to match original.... It pretty close I think. This HD head is
strictly lifted form ID's DoomRPG.
Image

But there is another factor we played Doom for 15 years so maybe its simply impossible to accept such changes.
And presumably new sprite quality is not acceptable. I am sure though noone will never hand-make all 500 like in example above.

So anyways, I will fininsh this project, and upload .pk3file when its done, at least with HD weapons if noone likes monsters.
Best,
thief.

PS Sergeant, please tell me how exactly you polished my sprites (software, filter type)
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby -Ghost- » Wed Sep 21, 2011 7:54 pm

Nice work, man, keep it up! I agree that some people will never accept changes, because they are purists. And there's nothing wrong with that, I love Doom myself, but I also love mods for games so modding Doom in any way is okay to me, even if I don't personally play it myself. I'll definitely use your HD sprites if you're able to finish them. Everyone says that these projects are never finished, but if at least *one* project is completed, then it can act as a baseline for other HD mods. People can enhance your work or your method, learn from it, and everyone will benefit as it gets better and better. As I'm sure you'll get better and better at this as time goes on.

Sgt. Mark's Imp looks okay, but I think the black outline is a little too heavy. It looks better in game, and probably better in motion, but it looks a little bit too thick to me.
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:03 pm

Image

So, what you think about it, guys? Is it really worth the effort?





thief666 wrote:PS Sergeant, please tell me how exactly you polished my sprites (software, filter type)

I use Macromedia Fireworks 8, but I think you can do it with Gimp or Photoshop too. All you need is to do is use the eraser to remove some borders to make them look lees "square-ish", use the pencil tool, give it the "Preserve Transparency" flag (so it doesn't paints outside the sprite's edges), set it's edge to the maximum, transparency to 10% (if using to make large shadows), or 20% (to make details), and draw over the existing stuff. Some parts that your resize program couldn't make right, you need to draw by yourself. This requires a lot of pratice.


Hellser wrote:and with GZDooM, you can toss in 3D Models which provides an even better depth.

Excuse me, but the current 3D models looks as good in Doom as ketchup tastes good with chocolate ice cream. They really don't fit with the game, and the way the move, is just terrible. Their movements looks like robots from a 60's movie.

Hellser wrote:Your choice to continue. Infact, go right ahead, to better YOUR self. But this isn't going to go far, and you do realize that there are a total of 503 sprites (Death, Standing, Walking, Shooting) animations for the original DooM monsters, right? .. and that you have to do this filtering / modification to each one?

I don't think that its going to be THAT hard. It takes to me 20 minutes to do each sprite. Of course it's not good as Blox's style, but at least it's something doable, that can end up with a solid result. Wait until I finish the whole set of Imp sprites. Maybe it can change some minds.
Last edited by Sergeant_Mark_IV on Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby SamVision » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:16 pm

Looks better
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby thief666 » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:28 pm

hey Sergeant_Mark_IV,
regardless of everything pleas tell me how did you get such great results?
what program are you using, is it just some shadow enchancing filter ?
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:30 pm

Check my post again. I edited it.
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby -Ghost- » Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:36 am

Yeah those sprites look a lot better. That way the black outline adds definition and a slight outline, but doesn't overpower the way the sprite looks already.
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby rampancy777 » Thu Sep 22, 2011 2:32 pm

it looks nice so keep it up!
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby JustinC » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:29 pm

but if the original sprites still look better, than why continue?
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Re: Doom weapons and enemies sprites HD (8x)

Postby -Ghost- » Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:57 pm

JustinC wrote:but if the original sprites still look better, than why continue?


That's an opinion, though. Why not do it?
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