Brütal Doom v0.18

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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:48 pm

Thankis for the comments, guys.

Doomhuntress wrote:Is there any minimum requirements to run this mod?

Well, I run it on a crappy Ge-Force MX4000 128mb video card with 640x480 resolution in trilinear filter at 30~60 FPS.


SFJake wrote:This is great, but I bring simple criticism:

As much as berserk is a fun gimmick for the first 10 seconds, its only annoying and completely breaks the flow to have to watch yourself rip something apart. No more gibbing everything with berserk, takes way too long, unless I missed something.

Other than that, very professionally done. Has a good feel to it.

lizardcommando wrote:The blood and gore in this mod makes the blood and gore in the Nashgore mod look like a tiny sprinkler in a garden. This mod was pretty damn entertaining to play. The reloading for the weapons seem pointless and I have to agree with the criticism that SFJake gave regarding the berserk fatalities. They are badass and awesome but they do get kind of old after a while and it's not really fun having to wait for your guy to curb-stomp an imp while several demons make there way to you to rip you apart.

Aside from that, this was pretty damn cool.


Thanks guys. Well, the Fatality actualy is something optional. If you don't like it, you can gib the enemies using the right-handed hook (Alt-Fire for Punch). The berserk right-handed hook actualy deals 4x more damage and is just 35% slower than a berserk left-handed jab that causes a fatality. The fatality is supposed only to be used to execute a last enemy in a group, just to look badasss.

Doomhuntress wrote:Just tested this out (in software mode, since OpenGL mode behaved funky).

Honestly... I don't like it. It feels way too experimental to be an enhancement mod, there's alot of cool features in it, but it feels that it's TOO MUCH. It feels cluttered, and breaks the balance and flow of Doom's gameplay. It's not a bad mod at all, but it feels like a too experimental mod to be enjoyable.
[/quote]

Well, this is a matter of personal taste, and I can't argue against it. It's supposed to modify the "balance and flow of Doom's Gameplay" and make it fell faster and harder.
There are other people arround who doesn't like the gameplay modifications, and I will soon release a wad only with it's gore and death animations, wich I will call Brutal Gore.

For those who doesn't likes using Skulltag, I uploaded a GZDoom-compatible version. Check the first post.
Last edited by Sergeant_Mark_IV on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby GuildNavigator » Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:59 pm

GuildNavigator wrote:Why don't you implement some MortalKombat fatality when you pick up the berserk? Like the Kano's one? That would look gorgeously goreful! :chainsaw2:

Anyway, this looks great! It gives a more horrific effect to the gore of the game..


Thanks. Well, I don't play Mortal Kombat (I think it has been about 7 years since the last time I played UMK in my old rusty Sega Saturn), so, can you explain me how his fatality is?

Oh, well, that was famous at that time for the brutality of the move itself: Kano at the end literally smashes the opponent's chest and tear off his heart, still pulsating, leaving the victim falling heartless.. Actually, I'm not a real fan of the MortalKombat series, but when I was a kid I had been impressed by this fatality in particular. The title, and most of all the screensshots of your thread, reminded me immediately this thing.. Naturally it's just a stupid suggestion of mine, but think about making for each monster in doom a different fatality... ;) For example for the cacodemon, you simply rip out its eye, or maybe for the sergeants you smash their guts... yuck! That'd be really goreful!

Anyway, this shows you Kano's fatality! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4KhU-GIPJY
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:28 pm

GuildNavigator wrote:Oh, well, that was famous at that time for the brutality of the move itself: Kano at the end literally smashes the opponent's chest and tear off his heart, still pulsating, leaving the victim falling heartless.. Actually, I'm not a real fan of the MortalKombat series, but when I was a kid I had been impressed by this fatality in particular. The title, and most of all the screensshots of your thread, reminded me immediately this thing.. Naturally it's just a stupid suggestion of mine, but think about making for each monster in doom a different fatality... ;) For example for the cacodemon, you simply rip out its eye, or maybe for the sergeants you smash their guts... yuck! That'd be really goreful!

Anyway, this shows you Kano's fatality! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4KhU-GIPJY


Actualy there is one fatality for most of the monsters. For now there is two for the Zombieman, one for the Imp, Shotgun Guy, Chaingun Guy, Demon, Revenant, Cacodemon, and Lost Soul. And yes, I plan adding one for every monster.

Thanks for the video, I will find a way to use it somewhere :twisted:
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby KingShinra » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:21 pm

Sir.

This modification is spectacular. I saw teeth, limbs, gore, gore, gore, gore, gore, gore, GLDEFS, gore, gore, gore...

...black gloves, monstrously powerful BFG, fist action, charred plasma corpses.


I approve. 9/10.
Very good addition & spiceup to play old Megawads and such.

...and I see why you focused this project mainly as a Skulltag release. It seems much more fun to utilize GOREFEST bloody action in multiplayer, but now that a GZDoom version is available, single player users can enjoy the brutality as well.


Improvements are few. A majority of issues will be with lag, and that's reflective of individual computers themselves. It's bloody, and GFXed to the core.

Well done sir.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Matt » Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:40 pm

My God, it's full of gibs!
Holy cheesecake being gently caressed batman this is awesome! The effects, the guns, the fire flickers from the imps, the rebalancing, the
Spoiler:
, ... And the sound... never thought I'd get headshots this satisfying outside of Killing Floor, much less in Doom!

I kinda almost wish that there weren't so much blood, though, just so I can see the full effect of the SSG point blank. (my computer kinda makes its own Zed Time already. :V)

One bug: If you get the invulnerability sphere and the berserk pack (I don't remember which one I got first), if you perform a fatality against an imp (not sure if monster makes a difference) once it's over the invulnerability visual is still there but you can get hurt.

One request: Allow reloading of partially-shot SSG.


EDIT: One more bug: Have a shotgun fully loaded and your ammo count at 11. Empty the shotgun and reload. Your animation loads 8 shells even though you only have, and after the animation will only be able to fire, 3.
Last edited by Matt on Sun Feb 27, 2011 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Squishybrick » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:39 pm

Definitely a neat wad to play around with, the monster fatalities bring me back sweet memories of when I was little and used to get a chill down my spine whenever I heard the roar of the baron..

I wasn't really impressed with the increase in gore, because I'm not a graphics kinda guy (Not to say it definitely was a very nice touch, probably took a lot of work getting all those extra sprites and gore in there), but the insta-death possibilities and slightly raised risk factor (Monsters kill you faster and you can kill them faster) is what made me smile playing it.

The marine dripping blood and limping when he's near death was also a very nice touch, reminded me of L4D. I could totally see this being played out the wazoo in multiplayer survival. :D
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby SFJake » Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:52 am

Important bug:

Seems like ClipBox doesn't actually give ammo. It seems to give it to the original ammo but not the "Clips" used in your mod.

I was wondering why I was lacking in minigun ammo. There's why.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby arookas » Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:39 am

Oh wow, I just tried this -- amazing! One of the best and most feature packed "enhancement" WADs I've downloaded! :D I admit, I couldn't leave the outdoors of MAP01 spamming "summon zombieman" only watch a gibs firework show with "kill monsters". :lol:

My favorite RIP AND TEAR! animation was the Imp. I was very impressed and wasn't expecting different epic animations and effects for each -- the headshots, limb shots, etc. as well -- and even with the description, I didn't know it was this smoothly accomplished. Thank goodness I tried it, I might put this WAD in the autoload INI section. :P

As for bugs, I didn't really notice any; though, I was too much in awe of the guts on the screen and splats and gore that it only seems feasible... haha, oh well, so much stuff I would've never thought could have been done so well in Doom was done. Great job!

Heck, even if you can play Crysis max, I doubt you can play brutaldoom.wad+nuts.wad. Seriously. *insert Minigunner's epic Doomguy trollface here*
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby GuildNavigator » Sun Feb 27, 2011 6:12 pm

WOW!

I just played seriously your wad... that's really cruel and goreful! It really gives more fun to the game itself.. great job!
Oh, you had the same idea If I'd have done something like this about the cacodemon: picking out its green eye! ahahah wonderful!

Just a little criticism: I don't like very much the remains of the Cyberdemon; I mean, the block of meat that pops towards the player has a very thick bloody edge! The blood should fall down; as it is, it seems that a solid piece of solid blood covers the remain of our poor Cyb!
But this doesn't mean you did not a great job! Oh, and I really like the former's smoking skull after a couple of plasma shots: it's actually very original!
Congratulations again! :twisted:
Last edited by GuildNavigator on Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby pieceofpiesoftware » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:05 pm

Please make this ZDoom-friendly, I don't like Skulltag and can't run it on my machine without crashes. :| ~
Otherwise, lovely mod.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Xaser » Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:37 pm

Check the first post or last page -- he posted up a GZDoom-compatible version.

Anyhow, been playing with it a bit more and having a lot of fun with it. I think that some of the effects might be a bit too extravagant in terms of decals (I've gotten some slowdowns and I think that's the culprit), though that's easily fixable on the user side of things by limiting the number of decals. I do have a few gameplay-ish things to nitpick on, though, which I feel kinda slow down the game a bit:

  • Gibbed imps' torsos are solid. I noticed that they can be shot again and destroyed further, but as-is they tend to clog up doorways and block the player at times.
  • It's really not a good idea to use Runhealth. The player is already near death (and a bit slower in this mod) -- why double-cripple the player by slowing him/her down and making it harder to defend against things? Sure, it's realistic, but it detracts from the fun factor.
  • The stealth Spectres are frustrating and odd-looking. I actually thought it was a bug at first that Spectres were appearing out of nowhere, since the fuzz effect nullifies the usual fadein/fadeout that accompanies the Stealth effect. At the very least, you can improve the visuals by setting the renderstyle to "Stencil" and setting stencilcolor to black, making them appear as black shadows (that properly fade in and out). Not quite the original fuzz, but it'd look better. Not that it'd fix the frustration factor, though... I'm not a fan of fighting invisible things.
  • Arachnotron rails are impossible to dodge. Might want to put a slight delay between the A_FaceTarget and A_CustomRailgun calls so the player is able to side-step it if they're lucky enough to see the attack coming.
  • Nitpick: The 'open' sound for the super-shotgun plays a half-second too late... seems weird.

Also, a random suggestion: Why not move the berserk fatalities to the more powerful alt-fire instead of the primary (which is generally more versatile)? I do like the effect and don't find it gameplay-interrupting really, but having the action triggered on the less-powerful of the two punches seems backwards to me.

Anyhow, the rocket launcher in this mod is probably the most fun thing to use ever. Damn cool stuff. :)
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Matt » Sun Feb 27, 2011 8:27 pm

Totally with Xaser re: suggested altfire fatality and sheer awesome of the rocket launcher - I've noticed most ZDoom mod RLs are big, slow, brutal monsters of very limited use (basically in 99% of all situations another weapon would be either more efficient or less risky or both), whereas this is actually a very decent, almost Quake-like deal.

Totally the opposite of Xaser re: bullet points after the first and before the last. :P Though it would be nice to possibly regenerate (slowly) if you don't take any damage for a while, up to the point where you can run again so at least you don't get stuck anywhere.

I can't help but think that the chaingunners are badly underpowered. Against other monsters they're very good since they keep their target from attacking back, but a lot of times I can just stand there and get riddled with bullets while I do something else (pick up items, inflict a FATALITY! on a much more threatening shotgunguy) and pick the chaingunners off at my leisure. I suspect the average DPS is higher and on really big maps where you're surrounded the chaingunners would be much worse, but it feels (and sounds) very odd in close-quarters early-level fights (and especially when that same weapon suddenly becomes so devastating in your own hands).


EDIT: More stuff:

Love the new Nazi look. I can't help but think the MP40 was an afterthought, though - there's no reloading and the spread on this thing is a tiny fraction of that of the rifle and makes way more headshots without any aiming option the way the rifle does. Aren't rifles supposed to be more accurate than SMGs? yeah I know weight and recoil and stuff but a) it's counterintuitive and b) the rifle is that inaccurate even on your first shot so recoil shouldn't be a factor.

Anyway, yeah, would be nice to make the rifle's default shooting considerably more accurate to make it a bit less frustrating to use.

(In other news, the MP40 uses the "Clip" ammo so if you run into a bunch of green boxes cheat to get the MP40 and you can use them.)
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby KingShinra » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:07 am

Sergeant Mark.


I think making this modification was a very good excellent decision. Well done.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Sergeant_Mark_IV » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:19 am

Thanks for the comments.

KingShinra wrote:Sir.

This modification is spectacular. I saw teeth, limbs, gore, gore, gore, gore, gore, gore, GLDEFS, gore, gore, gore...

...black gloves, monstrously powerful BFG, fist action, charred plasma corpses.


I approve. 9/10.
Very good addition & spiceup to play old Megawads and such.

...and I see why you focused this project mainly as a Skulltag release. It seems much more fun to utilize GOREFEST bloody action in multiplayer, but now that a GZDoom version is available, single player users can enjoy the brutality as well.


Improvements are few. A majority of issues will be with lag, and that's reflective of individual computers themselves. It's bloody, and GFXed to the core.

Well done sir.


Thanks :)
Well, actualy you CAN play Skulltag in singleplayer :D


Vaecrius wrote:
My God, it's full of gibs!
Holy cheesecake being gently caressed batman this is awesome! The effects, the guns, the fire flickers from the imps, the rebalancing, the
Spoiler:
, ... And the sound... never thought I'd get headshots this satisfying outside of Killing Floor, much less in Doom!

I kinda almost wish that there weren't so much blood, though, just so I can see the full effect of the SSG point blank. (my computer kinda makes its own Zed Time already. :V)

One bug: If you get the invulnerability sphere and the berserk pack (I don't remember which one I got first), if you perform a fatality against an imp (not sure if monster makes a difference) once it's over the invulnerability visual is still there but you can get hurt.

One request: Allow reloading of partially-shot SSG.


EDIT: One more bug: Have a shotgun fully loaded and your ammo count at 11. Empty the shotgun and reload. Your animation loads 8 shells even though you only have, and after the animation will only be able to fire, 3.



Thanks for repporting. I will take a look on those stuff.




Squishybrick wrote:Definitely a neat wad to play around with, the monster fatalities bring me back sweet memories of when I was little and used to get a chill down my spine whenever I heard the roar of the baron..

I wasn't really impressed with the increase in gore, because I'm not a graphics kinda guy (Not to say it definitely was a very nice touch, probably took a lot of work getting all those extra sprites and gore in there), but the insta-death possibilities and slightly raised risk factor (Monsters kill you faster and you can kill them faster) is what made me smile playing it.

The marine dripping blood and limping when he's near death was also a very nice touch, reminded me of L4D. I could totally see this being played out the wazoo in multiplayer survival. :D


Thanks :)


SFJake wrote:Important bug:

Seems like ClipBox doesn't actually give ammo. It seems to give it to the original ammo but not the "Clips" used in your mod.

I was wondering why I was lacking in minigun ammo. There's why.


Yup. Mr. Chris already had repported it at the Doomworld Forums in the same night I released the 0.8 version. But thanks.


Arookas wrote:Heck, even if you can play Crysis max, I doubt you can play brutaldoom.wad+nuts.wad. Seriously. *insert Minigunner's epic Doomguy trollface here*


I lol'ed at that :lol:


GuildNavigator wrote:Just a little criticism: I don't like very much the remains of the Cyberdemon; I mean, the block of meat that pops towards the player has a very thick bloody edge! The blood should fall down; as it is, it seems that a solid piece of solid blood covers the remain of our poor Cyb!



Yes, I'm gonna redo the Cyber and Mastermind animation for next release. I forgot to polish them :P


pieceofpiesoftware wrote:Please make this ZDoom-friendly, I don't like Skulltag and can't run it on my machine without crashes. :| ~
Otherwise, lovely mod.


GZDoom-friendly download at the botom of the first post.




Xaser wrote:
  • Gibbed imps' torsos are solid. I noticed that they can be shot again and destroyed further, but as-is they tend to clog up doorways and block the player at times.

I don't noticed it yet. But, there is a way to fix it without making the torsos not shootable?

Xaser wrote:
  • It's really not a good idea to use Runhealth. The player is already near death (and a bit slower in this mod) -- why double-cripple the player by slowing him/her down and making it harder to defend against things? Sure, it's realistic, but it detracts from the fun factor.


I added Runhealth not just for realism, but it's propositaly added to increase it's dificulty. Maybe I will add a slow health regeneration until the player gets up to 25 health again.


Xaser wrote:
  • The stealth Spectres are frustrating and odd-looking. I actually thought it was a bug at first that Spectres were appearing out of nowhere, since the fuzz effect nullifies the usual fadein/fadeout that accompanies the Stealth effect. At the very least, you can improve the visuals by setting the renderstyle to "Stencil" and setting stencilcolor to black, making them appear as black shadows (that properly fade in and out). Not quite the original fuzz, but it'd look better. Not that it'd fix the frustration factor, though... I'm not a fan of fighting invisible things.
    Arachnotron rails are impossible to dodge. Might want to put a slight delay between the A_FaceTarget and A_CustomRailgun calls so the player is able to side-step it if they're lucky enough to see the attack coming.
    Nitpick: The 'open' sound for the super-shotgun plays a half-second too late... seems weird.


Yes, agreed with everything here. I never heard about the "Stencil" renderstyle, I will try it out and see what I can get with it.


Xaser wrote:Also, a random suggestion: Why not move the berserk fatalities to the more powerful alt-fire instead of the primary (which is generally more versatile)? I do like the effect and don't find it gameplay-interrupting really, but having the action triggered on the less-powerful of the two punches seems backwards to me.


Because using the strong punch to gib the monster makes more sense. The strong puch impact even shakes the ground, and fast punch not, then, it would be weird to make a fast and weak jab blow a person into pieces.

But in the whole Fatality discussion thing on the ST forums, people already suggested me a Bind that enables/disables the fatality for the player. And I think I will include it on the next version.


Vaecrius wrote:Totally with Xaser re: suggested altfire fatality and sheer awesome of the rocket launcher - I've noticed most ZDoom mod RLs are big, slow, brutal monsters of very limited use (basically in 99% of all situations another weapon would be either more efficient or less risky or both), whereas this is actually a very decent, almost Quake-like deal.

Totally the opposite of Xaser re: bullet points after the first and before the last. :P Though it would be nice to possibly regenerate (slowly) if you don't take any damage for a while, up to the point where you can run again so at least you don't get stuck anywhere.

I can't help but think that the chaingunners are badly underpowered. Against other monsters they're very good since they keep their target from attacking back, but a lot of times I can just stand there and get riddled with bullets while I do something else (pick up items, inflict a FATALITY! on a much more threatening shotgunguy) and pick the chaingunners off at my leisure. I suspect the average DPS is higher and on really big maps where you're surrounded the chaingunners would be much worse, but it feels (and sounds) very odd in close-quarters early-level fights (and especially when that same weapon suddenly becomes so devastating in your own hands).


EDIT: More stuff:

Love the new Nazi look. I can't help but think the MP40 was an afterthought, though - there's no reloading and the spread on this thing is a tiny fraction of that of the rifle and makes way more headshots without any aiming option the way the rifle does. Aren't rifles supposed to be more accurate than SMGs? yeah I know weight and recoil and stuff but a) it's counterintuitive and b) the rifle is that inaccurate even on your first shot so recoil shouldn't be a factor.

Anyway, yeah, would be nice to make the rifle's default shooting considerably more accurate to make it a bit less frustrating to use.

(In other news, the MP40 uses the "Clip" ammo so if you run into a bunch of green boxes cheat to get the MP40 and you can use them.)


Yes, you have a point on the Chaingunner thing.

The MP40 is supposed to don't have to reload and little spread because it's a secret weapon. Since you can only get it killing a Nazi in the doom2 secret levels, it's a very rare thing to find, so, it's supposed to be more powerfull than the starting rifle.

Also, make the Rifle more accurate? Why? Did you tried aiming down the sights with alt-fire? It just gets into a perfect aim at any shoot.
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Re: Brutal Doom v0.8

Postby Xaser » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:
Xaser wrote:
  • Gibbed imps' torsos are solid. I noticed that they can be shot again and destroyed further, but as-is they tend to clog up doorways and block the player at times.

I don't noticed it yet. But, there is a way to fix it without making the torsos not shootable?

Sure -- just remove the SOLID flag and keep the SHOOTABLE flag there. They're completely separate, so it's possible to have non-solid objects that can be fragged.

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:
Xaser wrote:
  • It's really not a good idea to use Runhealth. The player is already near death (and a bit slower in this mod) -- why double-cripple the player by slowing him/her down and making it harder to defend against things? Sure, it's realistic, but it detracts from the fun factor.

I added Runhealth not just for realism, but it's propositaly added to increase it's dificulty. Maybe I will add a slow health regeneration until the player gets up to 25 health again.

The way I see it, there's no need to further increase difficulty at that stage since the game already becomes much harder simply by the fact that you have little health. Putting the run cap at 25 effectively cuts your survival threshold down by a fourth, since if you cross that point, your main method of defense (speed & dodging ability) is taken away and you essentially become a sitting duck. It's a double-cripple.

Still, though, I argue against that one on principle, and I do like the idea of slow regeneration (maybe something like 1hp per second) below the 25 mark. That would alleviate the problems it causes outside of combat (e.g. not being able to reach places you should because you can't run fast enough to get there) while still providing a hazard inside of it. If you want to keep the behavior, then go for that, I say. It's a compromise I'd be happy with.

On that topic, I'm tempted to revive that old mod idea where you actually get speed + damage boosts at low health, as a reward for risky playing. For what it's worth, I did think of it before Team Fortress 2 came out with the Equalizer, but... ah, whatever. :P

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:I never heard about the "Stencil" renderstyle, I will try it out and see what I can get with it.

If I recall correctly, GZDoom (until recently) actually used a similar method for coloring Spectres in GL mode, since it couldn't emulate the fuzz effect yet. You may be able to perfectly emulate what you're used to seeing, if that's the case. :)

Sergeant_Mark_IV wrote:
Xaser wrote:Also, a random suggestion: Why not move the berserk fatalities to the more powerful alt-fire instead of the primary (which is generally more versatile)? I do like the effect and don't find it gameplay-interrupting really, but having the action triggered on the less-powerful of the two punches seems backwards to me.

Because using the strong punch to gib the monster makes more sense.

I suppose so. It's not much of a biggie anyway, and having the bind should make all parties happy regarding the fatalities.


Hmm, regarding the chaingunners: Are they using the same damage values as the original D2 chaingunners? If so, I'd say it's probably best just to leave it the same, since increasing the damage of hitscan enemies can seriously throw the balance of the game too far into the 'hard' factor (Zero Tolerance is a perfect example of this) since they're used so commonly as lower-tier enemies. I've already noticed that the shotgun guys do significantly more damage, which is fine here (good call on decreasing the damage per bullet) but dangerously close. I know the point is to make it a bit harder overall -- just don't overdo it, is all I'm trying to paranoidly say. :P

Also, one more "cosmetic" but still-important thing: The console gives some errors about duplicate actors on startup, which should probably be cleared up for good practice if nothing else.
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