scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - IT'S BACK!!

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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby Doomguy 2000 » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:05 pm

scalliano wrote:AEoD is amazing IMHO, but I started this as a more "sensible" alternative for people who may have thought it was a bit too crazy. Sadly the idea never really caught on with anyone else (as Doomguy2000 clearly demonstrated :P)


Yeah my idea caught on with people it was just hated as clearly demostrated. Yeah my alternative to AEOD was me trying to come up with more new ideas such as joke difficulties, never before seen monsters and a mapset that is 100% with Doomguy's Warzone.

insightguy wrote:But I think we can all agree that doomguy's warzone was the worst randomizer evar. :D


And I also agree that Doomguy's Warzone is the most popular alternative to AEOD.

I wonder on what exactly this major update is going to be about? Now that is something I look forward to when the new version of the 667 shuffle comes out. Hopefully we get to see the Cheshire Cacodemon in this new version. I also have one question, why do you have both the Elixir Sphere and Life Sphere when they both do the same exact thing?
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby rsl » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:07 am

scalliano wrote:

@insightguy: AEoD is amazing IMHO, but I started this as a more "sensible" alternative for people who may have thought it was a bit too crazy. Sadly the idea never really caught on with anyone else


I already thought about the possibility of starting a similar modification, mostly for personal use. Yet in my opinion, one of the best things a randomizer can offer is some sort of RPG feel - during your quest, you manage to beat the first boss-level creature with your weak, acquired-up-to-that-point weapons, and just steal his one. And then you keep progressing this way, obtaining rewards from your opponents, and experiencing many little and big "surprises" in terms of inventory and weapon findings... Even with per-slot carrying limitations, which force you to plan some strategy. Considering a randomizer from this perspective, it's therefore obvious to say that creating something like that for my personal enjoyment wouldn't have made sense, because I would have known about every possible "surprise" right from the start... :roll:

I guess AEoD is quite successful at creating this sense of surprise, although I am sometimes put a bit off by the sheer, dishomogeneous variety of its contents (something that has been greatly improved anyway, particularly with the latest gamemode additions). On the other hand, even if I always thought that your shuffle was very well integrated with the DOOM setting, I didn't play with it very frequently because IMHO it really lacked those "special effects" that nowadays manage to give (G)(Z)DOOM a much more modern feel (i.e. a satisfying gore system, enhanced explosions, screen shakes etc.). :!:

Having concluded with my rant, I would nevertheless wish good luck to both of you (scalliano and thesleeve) for your work - I'll be definitely glad to try what you will release... :D
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby thesleeve » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:28 am

Hi everyone,

I finished my simplification. In order to make this as easy as possible, I made NO EDITS to Scalliano's original .pk3. All you need to do is create a blank WAD file, add a DECORATE lump, and copy-paste this text into the lump. Then, save the WAD (I called mine TheSleeveMod.wad), and load it up after Scalliano's zmwr.pk3 via the command line for (G)ZDoom, as shown here:
Code: Select allExpand view
zdoom.exe -file zmwr.pk3 TheSleeveMod.wad


Summary of changes:
I basically just went in and replaced all of the weapon and ammo types that I didn't want with generic spawners for other types. Pretty simple. If you want to re-enable a weapon or ammo type, simply comment out the corresponding section(s) of the code where I disabled it.

This slightly changes the balance of item spawning, but not enough to cause a major imbalance in gameplay. It's true to Scalliano's original vision, just simpler.

In the end, this mod reduces the number of weapons from 55 to 23, and reduces the types of ammo from 15 to 7, which just makes the whole thing a little easier to play. You can still get access to all weapons/ammo by using console commands or the good ol' IDKFA cheat code.

[EDIT] If you want to remove the ammo from the HUD, simply add another plain text lump called ALTHUDCF, and copy the text I've posted below.

Enjoy!

The DECORATE lump:
Spoiler:


The ALTHUDCF lump to remove ammo from the HUD:
Spoiler:


TheSleeve
Last edited by thesleeve on Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby Gez » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:42 am

Doomguy 2000 wrote:Yeah my idea caught on with people it was just hated as clearly demostrated. Yeah my alternative to AEOD was me trying to come up with more new ideas such as joke difficulties, never before seen monsters and a mapset that is 100% with Doomguy's Warzone.


There's nothing bad with using difficulties to really change things up, having exclusive content, and a supporting map set created just for it. If anything, that'd make it a whole lot better.


The problem is that your mod contains low quality content passed off as a "joke". With a more serious approach, like Scalliano's mod here, it could have been good.

Mind you, I'd actually like a mod featuring maps designed from the start to have random encounters. It could then be balanced a lot better, by directly placing various types of random spawners on the map, than any replacer-based approach can be when they want to introduce overpowered monsters compared to the original bestiary. Replacing a sergeant with an unmaker zombie or a hell knight with a bruiser demon can completely ruin a map. But if the map was designed from the start to have a powerful boss here -- just randomly chosen from a bruiser, a pyrodemon, or a terminator for example -- then it could still be good because there's both randomness and balance control.

But please, none of that "joke" nonsense. A joke is supposed to be funny; monkey cheese isn't funny.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby wildweasel » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:14 pm

Gez wrote:But please, none of that "joke" nonsense. A joke is supposed to be funny; monkey cheese isn't funny.

Which is pretty much what I've been saying about Doomguy's Warzone since the very start, except Doomguy 2000 seems to revel in the fact that his mod has no redeeming value whatsoever.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby scalliano » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:34 pm

@Gez: I actually had thought about an AEoD mappack which took in levels styled around the various games that AEoD took its resources from. Never got off the ground, though.

As for "joke" content, I save that for the deepest, darkest reaches of the maps that I do make ;) So far I've only spoken to one person who discovered the Gunstar Heroes room in Threshold.

@thesleeve: Nice work. I'll check that mod out later.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby Gez » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:31 pm

I found that room. I couldn't have named it, though, what with the only games I have ever played on a console being Alex Kidd on the Sega Master System II and Burnin' Rubber on the Amstrad GX4000. (Don't worry if you never heard about that console. Nobody else did, either.)
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby scalliano » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:59 pm

Nice one. I deliberately made the secret that room was hidden in as cryptic as I could, a la Doom64. I think I did an OK job at recreating the room in question.

I actually saw Burnin' Rubber on display in a toy shop once. It was the first and last time I ever saw that system. :P

Also I notice both those games were pack-ins ;)
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby hugoroy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:31 pm

Nice to see this updated :D
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby jute » Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:38 am

Shuffle really revitalized Doom for me and I use it all the time. Shuffle + Oblige maps really gives the game a sort of Roguelike feel that I just love. I look forward to the update.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby thesleeve » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:28 am

jute wrote:Shuffle + Oblige maps really gives the game a sort of Roguelike feel that I just love.


Jute, I feel the same way. Ultimately, I want to make a standalone 667 module for Oblige that would create a kind of Roguelike mode. I have been thinking about various ways to do this.

The only thing missing would be permadeath.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby thesleeve » Thu Mar 01, 2012 5:06 pm

Just posted a quick update above showing how to remove un-used ammo from the HUD if you decide to disable it.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby atar » Sat Apr 28, 2012 2:26 am

Please i am looking forward for an update!!!
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - The Last Hurrah!

Postby insightguy » Sat Apr 28, 2012 5:16 am

Hoboy, what a bump! Just PM the dude next time.
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Re: scalliano's 667 Shuffle! - IT'S BACK!!

Postby scalliano » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:02 pm

Miss me?

It's back and it's bigger, badder and more jam-packed full of arbitrarily ripped content than ever before. Link's in the first post.

Have fun!
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