ÆoD (6.06.02 (03-14-16))

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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby DavidB1000 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:55 pm

Well, unless I'm missing something, then how does the flamethrower deal huge damage against them? I know it stuns all enemies it hits, but it's a piss poor balance system if you run into them without a heavy weapon. I'm sorry to say that not everyone spams the flamethrower, or the machine guns, or the flayer gun, etc. So don't expect me to believe it's balanced if it takes 7-9 rockets to kill. I'm sorry, but that's unbalanced. Or 10 railgun shots. 2 BFG hits, and a ripsaw blade.

One should not be forced to use the flamethower against these two enemies. Okay.
Sheesh. Drop their damage, drop their health, reduce the spawn rate, whatever, just fix the balance.
When uber-arch-vile class enemies take less rockets to kill then uber-baron classes, there's a balance issue.

Most annoying are the fact that they spawn sometimes frequently. They are not rare at all. And Paula, well, I've seen her three times, once in a small area, once in a largish map, and she disappeared a split second later, and at least one other time.
And don't get me started on how annoying it is to fight two to three of the fiends at once. Bottom line, they are the Demons in Quake 1, they shouldn't be able to withstand more than a Baron of Hell.
I know how annoying Ms. Bomb-o-bomb is. :)
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby Arch-Valentine » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:27 pm

If you run into those stronger monsters with weaker weapons, what you should do is run or try and get it to fight other monsters. In AEOD it's fairly simple to get it to fight something else. Kinda obvious advice in Doom, but it's tried and true.
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby BoldEnglishman » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:49 pm

DavidB1000 wrote:When uber-arch-vile class enemies take less rockets to kill then uber-baron classes, there's a balance issue.


Well, the original Baron of Hell had more life than the original Arch-Vile...

Bottom line, they are the Demons in Quake 1, they shouldn't be able to withstand more than a Baron of Hell.


Well actually, whereas you would encounter legions of Demons in Doom II, you would only encounter about 2 or 3 Fiends at once maximum in the original Quake levels. The Fiends need a lot of life just to pose a bit more of a threat to the player (seen as they only have a melee attack and DoomGuy can already whizz past them in all but the tightest areas).
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby DBThanatos » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:17 pm

About the quake fiend: That one is by far my favorite monster in quake, so I had to make it strong over here. I dont know if you, but at least when I used to play quake, and saw a fiend i was like "oh damn!! serious danger ahead". I tried to reflect that over here. Maybe I went a bit too far. And about it being invulnerable when jumping: that's actually my mistake. When I was trying to emulate better the fiend's jump, I started messing with ThrustThingZ, A_SkullAttack and A_Recoil to stop it's movement as soon as it landed; this was when I didnt know about A_Stop and it's simplicity in comparision to calculate the recoil needed to stop the A_SkullAttack. As you see, the effect was done, a nice clean jump. Hoever, if the fiend is shot in the middle of the air, this method gets broken; so, I made it invulnerable in the jump to avoid it entering into the pain state. Right now, none of this is needed, since A_stop is the real way to stop the movement caused by A_Skull attack. I think this should be fixed.

@David: Well, one thing you need to consider before saying that a monster is unbalanced (which is impossible to avoid) is the monsters in the spawners. You will find some really nasty monsters in each spawner, as you will find some pretty weak ones. Is absurd to think about making all monsters have the same health as the one it replaces; same goes with the attacks. Also, take in count the simple fact that, aliens and fiends dont have a projectile attack like the original replaced monster has, that must be somehow compensated. Trust me, balancing isnt easy at all, and less with more than 300 monsters ;)
Conclusion of those two monsters: they are supossed to scare the player when found ;) (yet, they might need a little revision)

zitro wrote:Enemy balances should take into account health, damage and other factors.

QFT

BoldEnglishman wrote:Well actually, whereas you would encounter legions of Demons in Doom II, you would only encounter about 2 or 3 Fiends at once maximum in the original Quake levels. The Fiends need a lot of life just to pose a bit more of a threat to the player (seen as they only have a melee attack and DoomGuy can already whizz past them in all but the tightest areas).

QTF too :P
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby DavidB1000 » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:51 pm

Ah, well, then my mistake. :) Very well, then, I'll concede the point. But I will not concede the whole flaming Bird of death. :)
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby zitro » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:09 pm

in case DBT or other coders didn't see this:

mmm, I don't know how to explain it well, but sometimes it appears as if there were 'invisible walls' on top of pillars and some other places (where sometimes enemies are located and shoot you from the top) .. an example being the pillar where a arch-vile appears in lvl 1 of plutonia. It can be frustrating as I shoot, but instead of seeing blood, I may see the shotgun hitting concrete (like a wall) ... a couple of times, shooting at a flying monster, my shots stopped during about the middle of the area (I was shooting from above, to monsters below) and confirmed this by doing IDDT which showed that my shotgun blasts hit somewhere in the middle. It doesn't happen all the time, but it's a very distracting gameplay issue, especially if you use rockets.

Is this about the SVN builds? The problem didn't happen before 4.20 (my svn is only about 2 months old), if I install the jan. 18 one, do I have to replay the game again (it'll be a bit frustrating again haha)

PS: i'm using gzdoom.

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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby NovaDragon » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:34 pm

Im not sure if im the only one who noticed it but its gonna bother me until i let it out.
I have two version of Alien Vendetta, one with map 24 as demonic hordes and the valley of echoes as 25 and another newer version that has demonic hordes as 25 and clandestine complex as 24. Valley of echoes was gone in this one. One thing that i notice with both versions as when i load up Aeons with this megawad, i get to Misri Halek, level 20. I get to the "cyber halls" where you enter and there is stairs to the right and a cyb there. You keep going straight make a left and a cyb is there. Go past him and a dead end exists with the yellow skull there. Thats all there is normally but with Aeons it seems that the key is not there and instead theres a lava cavern that leads up to an expansive mountain climb with a lava valley below you. At the top is a small emple which leads to a swith for the yellow skull. Its weird but that section only appears when playing with Aeons even though the end scene after the last level shows that mountain area. Its weird and it only exists when playing Aeons and no other level set has any explansions like that. I was wondering if its just me that noticed this, whether its something with Aeons or whether its something with the Aline vendetta version. just something i remembered that started to bug me.
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby DavidB1000 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:20 am

Tell you what, I'll go download Alien Vendetta, and then I will go see if what you say is true. If it is, I'm going to go what the fuck, because that literally makes no sense. If it doesn't, well, it's your computer. :)
Oh, and Nova, please, please, start using paragraph breaks. My head hurts.

Hmm, I just played through AV without Aeons and the map has a yellow key on top of a hill, which you can get to by running around a very large maze in the hills, for lack of a better term. The red key is in the lava, from what I saw. I'll go test with Arons.
This is the version from the archives, I don't know why it would be that different.
Wait, no, I just tested it with Aeons loaded. The yellow key is still on the top of the most annoying hill in existance, guarded by an aranchnatron, with three boxes of shotgun shells.
Um, are you sure you didn't have a corrupted file, or a different designed one. It's really weird. Aeons can't do that. The game itself would have to become sentient. :)
Ah yes, Zitro, I did answer your questions in the last topic before it was locked. I think. Basically all that means your computer or at the very least Gzdoom/Zdoom can't handle every little thing Aeons + whatever megawad, +whatever is in the skins directory. Bascially, it's not a very easy to reproduce issue.

Can you explain more, and also, can you tell us your computer stats?
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby NovaDragon » Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:13 am

Sorry about the paragraph thing lol.

Seriously though when you beat Av you see that screenshot of the mountain area i was talking about. doesnt make sence to me but its not there unless i play it with Aeons. ill check it out again just incase i was imagining things.

Also the one i downloaded was off of the idgames and the other i think was off of doomworlds forum. I tested it with the idgames one but like i said ill try it again.
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby Reilsss » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:51 am

Le Bumb.

Thougth i take a look in and I got a little shocked DBT wrote my name wrong *misses a part of his remaing* <..< >..> *sneakes the 3rd 's' into his name by credits @p1.*
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby DBThanatos » Mon Jan 19, 2009 3:03 am

I dont know what you are talking about Reilsss ;)

@Zitro: I havent found this problem. Could be the fact that I practically never use GZDoom (thanks to my crappy GMA chip). But really, I never saw such problem.

@NovaDragon: could it be related to the skills settings? That's the only thing in AEoD that could affect how a map behaves. In aeod, skill 0 is considered like the old 0 & 1 skills; skill 1 in aeod is like the old skill 2; skill > 2 is considered like the old skill 3. That could have something to do with it; otherwise, there is no factor in aeod that could change the behaviour of a map. In which skill you used to play Alien Vendetta without aeod?
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby zitro » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:34 am

David, I just wanted to see if DBT himself knew the solution. My computer is pretty advanced (a 2008 modern laptop) so I don't think that's the problem.

maybe gzdoom is the problem.
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby NovaDragon » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:21 pm

I usually try it in the equivilent of ultra violence and nothing else.

I tried it this morning though and that expansive part of the map did not appear but instead where the lava cavern should be before the mountain i got a black sign that said "out of order due to illness and lack of coffee". Im gonna try it again and post pictures of it and that also came up in both Aoens and without it.
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby DavidB1000 » Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:51 pm

Um ,okay ,you don't have the full version of Alien Vendetta, I'm certain of it. Because that's an impossible thing.

As I've posted earlier, I tested it. The red key is in lava, the Yellow key is guarded by an aranchatron on top of a huge hill. :)
Please, download it again from the archives and then check to see if the zip file is the following size. 8,830 KB.
The wad file size is 23,262 KB. :)
The only other alternative is that your computer is possessed. Well, or you're having an acid trip. :) So, should I call you Kurt Vonnegut, because his body apparently produces acid. Or something like it.
I'm sorry, but all that you posted makes no sense. Please, give us pictures, and then contact the Catholic Church for an exorism for your computer. :)

To zitro. Even if you computer is new, it's still possible that the Graphics card can foul up. :) RROD may affect only the X-Box 360, buy crappy hardware is everywhere. Can you run Crysis on that laptop? Because if you can't, it's not really a new computer. :) That's how computers have advanced.
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Re: ÆoD (4.21 patch: jan-14-2009)

Postby Ichor » Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:06 pm

An arachnotron? The only thing I ever saw up there is a spider mastermind. But then, that's probably just skill 4.
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