[WIP] GZDA - Virus Issues (p. 16)

[eliw00d]

Gotta admit, even if it does about the same damage per second I like the .45's feel a lot better than the old sidearm... might just be because I've been conditioned to associate the old gun's sprite with semi-auto buttonmashing or something, but I feel more like I'm running around looking for a "better" weapon rather than a "real" one.

Balance feels pretty much on par with Doom, although the specific playing style remains noticeably different with the faster shooting balanced by the reloading periods.

Haven't encountered the auto shotgun yet...

glad to hear it, i can feel it really coming together every time i play test it. the microgun is difficult to wield when firing at 4000rpm, the zombies have the same weapons as you, but have a hard time using them compared to the player. if there's anything you guys notice that needs changing or if you have any suggestions, i'm open to them!

[hnsolo77]

perhaps a 10% chance for the super shotgun to spawn on a regular shotgun spawn and a 5 or less% chance for the auto on regular shotgun spawn would help with Ultimate DooM so those weapons are available?

im going to try out the new version soon

edit, tried it and for some odd reason when reloading the new pistol the pistol completely disappears... and to be honest i dont like the less amount of ammo one can have for the shotgun

[eliw00d]

perhaps a 10% chance for the super shotgun to spawn on a regular shotgun spawn and a 5 or less% chance for the auto on regular shotgun spawn would help with Ultimate DooM so those weapons are available?

im going to try out the new version soon

edit, tried it and for some odd reason when reloading the new pistol the pistol completely disappears... and to be honest i dont like the less amount of ammo one can have for the shotgun

i understand you like both of those weapons, but the double barrel isn't native to ultimate doom and i plan to keep it that way. the auto shotgun, the machine pistol and the rail gun are mostly in the mod for mapping purposes. i'm trying to stay true to the original doom, just giving it a more modern feel. most weapon packs try to overwhelm you with EXTREME weapons that make doom feel unbalanced, it just kinda worked out in my favor when eriance made all these UAC weapon sprites.

[Tenement Funster]

the zombies have the same weapons as you, but have a hard time using them compared to the player.

Those microgun guys sure don't! Almost every death I've had in recent games using GZDA all belong to those bastards, and boy I've got lots of deaths. I like that they are so fatal though, so don't change it

most weapon packs try to overwhelm you with EXTREME weapons that make doom feel unbalanced

Exactly why I like GZDA so much


Although realistic, I'm not a big fan of the new reloading system for the pistol (and auto-shotgun?). I have a strong habit to just reload my gun if nothing is happening, even if I only shot out one bullet, and then I've wasted the 11 shots still left in the clip I threw out. It's also inconsistent seeing as the microgun doesn't act the same way, yet I doubt the doomguy manually inserts every one of the 999 bullets in to the chamber individually. Speaking of the pistol, will the reload animation be put in soon?

Did build 4 break the ammo displaying thing? I can never tell how many shotgun shells I have left in reserve, along with other ammo types like the microgun's. I think it just displays how many shells are loaded in to the basic shotgun, but I'm not sure.

As for suggestions, what do you think about having an alt fire for the rocket launcher that tosses out grenades, similarly to Unreal Tournament? Maybe it could use 2 rockets to fire one grenade since the usefulness of them might throw off the balance.

[eliw00d]

Those microgun guys sure don't! Almost every death I've had in recent games using GZDA all belong to those bastards, and boy I've got lots of deaths. I like that they are so fatal though, so don't change it

i'm still fine tuning the balance overall, and thinking of changing the rate of fire for the microgunners from 4000rpm to 1000rpm, just to simulate that zombies/possessed can't handle the higher rate of fire. *shrugs*

Exactly why I like GZDA so much

Although realistic, I'm not a big fan of the new reloading system for the pistol (and auto-shotgun?). I have a strong habit to just reload my gun if nothing is happening, even if I only shot out one bullet, and then I've wasted the 11 shots still left in the clip I threw out. It's also inconsistent seeing as the microgun doesn't act the same way, yet I doubt the doomguy manually inserts every one of the 999 bullets in to the chamber individually. Speaking of the pistol, will the reload animation be put in soon?

actually, the microgun will dump ammo on reload, i just haven't gotten around to it. you will only be able to reload 500 rounds at a time up to a total capacity of 1000, as well. basically the microgun runs off two 500 round "cassettes", and when one runs empty the other is immediately loaded into the gun, basically giving you a 1000 round capacity throughout. in the current unreleased build i have a semi working version of this new reload system, but it's a lot different than the pistol or auto shotgun, so it will take a bit longer. as for the pistol's reload animation, i can make a simple reload animation as a placeholder until eriance finishes the rest of his reload frames.

Did build 4 break the ammo displaying thing? I can never tell how many shotgun shells I have left in reserve, along with other ammo types like the microgun's. I think it just displays how many shells are loaded in to the basic shotgun, but I'm not sure.

if you use the ZDoom custom hud you should be able to see how much ammo in reserve you have for those weapons, it will not work with the regular doom hud. that is just something to get used to, unfortunately. i'm not very good with custom huds, but it is something i would like for this mod, especially given how much of it relies on different ammo types and reloading.

As for suggestions, what do you think about having an alt fire for the rocket launcher that tosses out grenades, similarly to Unreal Tournament? Maybe it could use 2 rockets to fire one grenade since the usefulness of them might throw off the balance.

i don't want to get too crazy with alternate fire modes, as i want to keep the overall experience as close to doom as possible. i have some ideas to make weapons 5 - 7 more interesting, though.

[Tenement Funster]

if you use the ZDoom custom hud you should be able to see how much ammo in reserve you have for those weapons, it will not work with the regular doom hud. that is just something to get used to, unfortunately. i'm not very good with custom huds, but it is something i would like for this mod, especially given how much of it relies on different ammo types and reloading.

That's what I've been using, and it's worked fine for me up until B4 (B3 might have had it, but I didn't spend much time with that one). It displays all ammo types properly except for the microgun bullets and shotgun shells. It shows them as ammo types on the custom hud, but when firing/reloading, the values never change. When you switch to the shotgun, it doesn't make the numbers turn bright green like with the other ammo types (same with microgun)

EDIT: I just noticed, if you don't use 'give weapons' in the console, the shotgun/bullets ammo display wont even show up.

[eliw00d]

That's what I've been using, and it's worked fine for me up until B4 (B3 might have had it, but I didn't spend much time with that one). It displays all ammo types properly except for the microgun bullets and shotgun shells. It shows them as ammo types on the custom hud, but when firing/reloading, the values never change. When you switch to the shotgun, it doesn't make the numbers turn bright green like with the other ammo types (same with microgun)

EDIT: I just noticed, if you don't use 'give weapons' in the console, the shotgun/bullets ammo display wont even show up.

oh, i meant the regular zdoom hud, not the custom one with pictures of the weapons. i guess they are two different things, eh? :/

[Tenement Funster]

That's what I've been using, and it's worked fine for me up until B4 (B3 might have had it, but I didn't spend much time with that one). It displays all ammo types properly except for the microgun bullets and shotgun shells. It shows them as ammo types on the custom hud, but when firing/reloading, the values never change. When you switch to the shotgun, it doesn't make the numbers turn bright green like with the other ammo types (same with microgun)

EDIT: I just noticed, if you don't use 'give weapons' in the console, the shotgun/bullets ammo display wont even show up.

oh, i meant the regular zdoom hud, not the custom one with pictures of the weapons. i guess they are two different things, eh? :/

Ah, I see now. I wish I could see my compelete ammo pool again, but I suppose this will work.

[lizardcommando]

Will you be giving the fists a secondary attack? Maybe have it so that you can throw a strong punch or kick or something?

[Tenement Funster]

Found an annoying little bug with the BFG. Hitting the reload key to reload won't actually reload. After the green energy inside the gun lights back up during the reload animation, it dissapears and the gun is empty again as if you didn't reload at all. The only way to reload the BFG is by firing it while empty.

And I've changed my mind about the chaingunners. I've been playing Plutonia with GZDA and the absurd overuse of chaingunners is killing my soul. Increasing their wind-up time along with decreasing the firing rate would be great. Them being able to fire near instantaneously is a big pain in the ass.

[eliw00d]

Found an annoying little bug with the BFG. Hitting the reload key to reload won't actually reload. After the green energy inside the gun lights back up during the reload animation, it dissapears and the gun is empty again as if you didn't reload at all. The only way to reload the BFG is by firing it while empty.

And I've changed my mind about the chaingunners. I've been playing Plutonia with GZDA and the absurd overuse of chaingunners is killing my soul. Increasing their wind-up time along with decreasing the firing rate would be great. Them being able to fire near instantaneously is a big pain in the ass.

both will be fixed in the next build, thanks for bringing it up! i also toned arachnotrons down, seeing as they shoot twice as fast as before i decreased their damage quite a bit.

also, how do you guys think the microgun pickup should work? here are some ideas i have: microgunners will drop ammo instead of the microgun (since the sprite keeps the microgun anyways); microgun ammo boxes will be replaced with .45ACP ammo boxes; microgun pickup will come either fully loaded (1000) or partially loaded (500). even with the slower rate of fire, i find the microgun to be useless without a lot of ammo, so i'm trying to find a new way to give ammo for it.

[Tenement Funster]

also, how do you guys think the microgun pickup should work? here are some ideas i have: microgunners will drop ammo instead of the microgun (since the sprite keeps the microgun anyways); microgun ammo boxes will be replaced with .45ACP ammo boxes; microgun pickup will come either fully loaded (1000) or partially loaded (500). even with the slower rate of fire, i find the microgun to be useless without a lot of ammo, so i'm trying to find a new way to give ammo for it.

I like the idea of having the microgun already loaded with a half/full clip. If you were to pick up another microgun placed on the map while you already have one in your possession, would it give an additional 500/1000 ammo? If that were to be true, the ammo load should definitely be 500. Since the microgun is so powerful, I'd say a relatively low ammo pickup from enemy microgunners would be reasonable. The current pickup of 25 seems enough.

I also take back my statement against the new clip reloading system of the pistol/auto-shotgun. It's starting to grow on me as it adds a subtle new element of strategy to Doom.


I've finally managed to find the auto-shotgun and use it a fair bit. One of the first things I realized is how weak the recoil is. I'd think an auto-shotgun would have a lot more kick to it, especially with continous firing. Very fun to use, though.

[eliw00d]

I like the idea of having the microgun already loaded with a half/full clip. If you were to pick up another microgun placed on the map while you already have one in your possession, would it give an additional 500/1000 ammo? If that were to be true, the ammo load should definitely be 500. Since the microgun is so powerful, I'd say a relatively low ammo pickup from enemy microgunners would be reasonable. The current pickup of 25 seems enough.

i think i might make it so the microgun only comes loaded with one cassette, or 500 rounds, and the microgunners either won't drop anything or will drop small random amounts. ammo boxes for 5.56mm or .45ACP, though? for the pistol ammo it would probably be 50 per box, and get a new graphic depicting store bought ammo, similar to the shotgun shells. the current ammo count for 5.56mm boxes is 250 rounds.

I also take back my statement against the new clip reloading system of the pistol/auto-shotgun. It's starting to grow on me as it adds a subtle new element of strategy to Doom.

that's what it was intended for. also, it's magazine, not clip.

I've finally managed to find the auto-shotgun and use it a fair bit. One of the first things I realized is how weak the recoil is. I'd think an auto-shotgun would have a lot more kick to it, especially with continous firing. Very fun to use, though.

recoil for a 12 gauge shotgun in real life isn't much, really. but i suppose the recoil in game could be increased slightly for the auto shotgun to balance it. i mostly based the auto shotgun off of this particular shotgun:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hhstuvzMiB0&feature=related

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun

[eliw00d]

any other suggestions or bugs? i'm about to wrap up build 5.

[lizardcommando]

How about a secondary function for the fists like I suggested earlier? Like a kick or a strong punch or something? Also, will the next build have the reloading animation for the pistol?