GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Any utility that assists in the creation of mods, assets, etc, go here.

Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:52 am

illuknisaa wrote:Feature request:
Ability to use "page forward" and "page backward" keyboard shortcuts to browse through the texture selection. Currently I find little inconvenient to put mouse cursor on top of folder icon on top of texture selection and press RMB.

Clarification needed. What RMB? I mean, you select items with LMB :)
Also what are page forward and page backward? Ctrl+Tab and Ctrl+Shift+Tab?
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby NGX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:04 am

Gez wrote:No, he got fed up with complaints about the texture browser and quit. He's been so active for so long that he was probably approaching burn out anyway, and the nagging about the texture browser was just the proverbial straw breaking the camel's back.


Oh. Well that's a little sad to hear. I'm glad the development continues though, and am greatly appreciative of everybody's work in GZDB, ZD, GZD and Slade3.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:08 am

Anyway I've seen NightFright here lately :)
Would be nice to know what he thinks about the idea of making a new Duke map editor :lol:
Although he's probably here for other stuff.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:28 am

Poll:
How many people actually use the embedded script editor for editing the WAD? I understand that it's a bit useful, but there's already SLADE and there is already a feature called "open in DB2" in SLADE if you want it to be synchronized.
I want to keep things like MAPINFO editing or external scripts (SCRIPT01, extradata or whatever other directly map-related stuff should be there), but remove DECORATE/ZSCRIPT/SNDINFO/etc editing and displaying from the script editor.
The reasoning for this is because this is not exactly the duty of a map editor to edit resources, and reverse SLADE is a joke, not something to become a reality.
I don't want to support that bloated script editor tbh, it's only distracting from the stuff that's actually restricted and unique to GZDB.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Nash » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:53 am

I think the ACS script editor should stay because of its tight integration with map editing (ACS is made to manipulate maps, after all... and having the script list synchronize when editing a line is nice), the DIALOG editor is borderline useful (if it would even work for ZSDF which is the only format I use) because, the way Strife works is that NPCs go hand-in-hand with maps... but TBH I don't really care much about generically editing the other lumps. I understand GZDoomBuilder != SLADEBuilder. :D

Also make an actual poll in this thread so you can collect numbers.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:58 am

Created.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Gez » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:15 am

I'm okay with it. Disclaimer: my vote might be seen as biased since I've helped program stuff in SLADE 3.

Actual map scripting (ACS, FraggleScript, DIALOGUE) should definitely stay, and I think it's reasonable enough to edit MAPINFO from Builder. The rest (DECORATE, SNDINFO, TEXTURES, etc.) is more the province of a resource editor.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Rachael » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:30 am

At first I was against it because I was of the idea "why change it?" and "why fix it if it ain't broke?" - but Gez is right - ultimately, I am guessing you have your reasons for wanting to get rid of it, and they don't really need to make sense to me - we DO have Slade3 which is a very good editor and is quite sufficient enough for such needs. (In fact, my own personal projects always pass through SLADE before they ever reach Builder).
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:32 am

Eruanna wrote:ultimately, I am guessing you have your reasons for wanting to get rid of it

I'm going to add EDF (as a plugin, a bit later; also a demonstration on making a plugin that imports thing types), and I've added ZScript.
With the current setup, I also will have to provide second parser (for the Script Editor, like these) and fullblown scripting definitions (under Scripting directory in GZDB releases) for these languages.

So the question is why should I support something that doesn't even belong here?
That's my motivation, mostly.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Enjay » Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:58 am

ZZYZX wrote:Poll:
How many people actually use the embedded script editor for editing the WAD? I understand that it's a bit useful, but there's already SLADE and there is already a feature called "open in DB2" in SLADE if you want it to be synchronized.
...
The reasoning for this is because this is not exactly the duty of a map editor to edit resources, and reverse SLADE is a joke, not something to become a reality.

IMO, it shouldn't be removed. I'm not a huge user of GZDB, but I very much feel that the script editor is not a tacked on bit of lump editing that is nothing to do with the levels. Quite the reverse. An ACS script is often integral to the map and the way it functions when we are talking about the (often) simple scripts that manipulate the level at run time.

I set up my maps as I go, knowing that a particular effect, sector action, spawning, whatever, is going to be part of what goes on as the player progresses through the map. I build whatever is necessary then I open the script editor to add the lines of code needed to make [whatever] happen. To me, it's as basic and fundamental as setting a special on a line. I wouldn't expect to have to build the sectors for a door in one editor and then pop into another editor to put the specials on the lines to open it. Same with ACS.

The rest of the lump editing? Yeah, fair enough. I don't really care one way or the other and if it's a problem, remove it. But ACS is too closely related to how a map functions to be removed. Removing it would have a negative impact on the map making process.
Last edited by Enjay on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:00 am

Enjay, I think you misunderstood. I don't want to remove the ACS editor, or DIALOGUE editor. These will stay!
I want to remove unrelated lump editing, like DECORATE or SNDINFO. See the screenshot in the poll.
(if this changes your mind, remember you can always change the option that you voted for :))
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Cherepoc » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:04 am

ZZYZX
Should have closed scripts and dialogue tabs on the screenshot :)
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby Enjay » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:25 am

ZZYZX wrote:Enjay, I think you misunderstood. I don't want to remove the ACS editor, or DIALOGUE editor. These will stay!
I want to remove unrelated lump editing, like DECORATE or SNDINFO. See the screenshot in the poll.


Ah, right, sorry. Yes, I did misunderstand. I don't think that there is much need to have those features integrated into a map editor. They don't really (generally) evolve as the map is being made and, even if a modder did decide "I need a special monster right here" the process of creating it in DECORATE/ZScript is quite a different process and mindset to the laying down of lines and sectors and then attaching ACS scripts to them.

Of course, the one-stop-shop of mapping and lump management found in DeePsea has always been an attractive feature of that editor for me but Slade is very good and has a reasonably tight integration with GZDB. So I don't think it's such a big issue for the lumps identified. GZDB has never really tried to be that "one-stop-shop" so it's probably fair enough to pull that stuff out and leave things to the dedicated tool that specialises in it. Also, the style and interface of the two programs (GZDB and Slade) are similar enough in feel that they compliment each other that way too.

One things I like about the various script editors in GZDB is the way they suggest possible things that I might want to be putting into my code - a sort of "predictive DECORATE/ACS/etc". e.g. if I type:

POSS 1 A_

GZDB will pop up a dialogue with possible pointers to put there. I quite like that but I'm not sure if Slade does it or not.

Mind you, with the possibility of projects being in Zips and folder these days, unless we are talking about lumps in particularly Doom specific formats (e.g. sprites that need offsets and so on) I do a lot of my lump creation in my text editor of choice (which obviously also doesn't have "predictive DECORATE") and lump management in Windows explorer and 7zip.
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ZZYZX » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:37 am

SLADE supports autocompletion of DECORATE keywords and action signatures, although it doesn't have a DECORATE/ZScript parser like GZDB does (:P) and as such it won't automatically parse user-defined action function signatures (GZDB currently does, but also does nothing with this info). It only has predefined actions built into the executable.

I might later write a command-line tool that'd take a specified set of files and generate list of defined classes, class members and method signatures from it, kind of like IntelliSense in VS, to be used in custom editors for syntax highlighting and autocompletion.
Not sure which format should it output though. (perhaps it should be a Notepad++ plugin?)
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Re: GZDoomBuilder-Bugfix, a maintenance fork of GZDB

Postby ibm5155 » Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:53 am

I'm ok with it, editing stuff with it feels like notepad++ and not like a colored notepad as is slade3.
BUT I do belive doom builder should be map editing only features, but I wish slade3 someday will receive some of the notepad++ like features that gzdoom builder got...
That folder could be replaced to open all acs source files from wads or even from system folder.

EDIT: But maybe it would be nice to have an all in one doom editor (like using some kind of advanced decorate editor where you preview the objects by their Sprites, click in some state and preview the animation duration, rotate the object,...)
Last edited by ibm5155 on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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