Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Enjay » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:32 am

Fishbiter wrote:but Doom doesn't have a reload concept, does it?

Although OR support is not something I am particularly interested in, you are right that Doom doesn't have a reload concept, but GZDoom does. Historically, many weapon mods made home-baked reload solutions but GZDoom also now has built in support for binding a key to a reload action and thereby making the weapon jump to its reload state label. https://zdoom.org/wiki/CCMDs:Control#.2Breload
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Fishbiter » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:30 am

Ah, okay... I didn't realise that...
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby PixelWAD » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:57 pm

Have you guys seen this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJXpHp_iQF4

Oculus Quest, $399 All-In-One VR Headset playing 'arena scaled' games. Just imagine the possibilities that community could come up with once we have a proper Doom VR port. I'm really surprised that Carmack himself has not ported any of his titles, despite showing Doom 3 in VR back in 2012.

We are in very early days of VR, and while mobile graphics will always be few steps behind tethered PC experience, Doom as it's getting older it's only getting better. Simple graphics did not stop from evolving VR still today, and Doom has something that many modern AAA games lack - engaging gameplay.

Long story short - port the engine, unlock 20+ years unlimited user content in a really immersive action. It's going to take another couple of years before we see a true AAA made-for-VR titles, Doom has the possibility to be the entry-like last really forever.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby wildweasel » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:24 pm

PixelWAD wrote:I'm really surprised that Carmack himself has not ported any of his titles, despite showing Doom 3 in VR back in 2012.

Carmack doesn't work at id Software anymore. He's likely busier with whatever else he's been doing these days.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby PixelWAD » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:55 pm

I fully realize that, I was at least hoping he would do it in a weekend or two under a different name or so ;) He is really smart.

We could definitely crowdfund a unit for the gzDoom team. I'm way more optimistic about Doom in vr than they are, but this could be truly the killer app in the landmark of games that don't really want you to come back playing...
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Graf Zahl » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:46 pm

I think you are grossly overestimating the importance of VR. It hasn't been a breakout success in the past and won't be in the future. And my personal interest in it is precisely zero.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:59 am

wildweasel wrote:
PixelWAD wrote:I'm really surprised that Carmack himself has not ported any of his titles, despite showing Doom 3 in VR back in 2012.

Carmack doesn't work at id Software anymore. He's likely busier with whatever else he's been doing these days.

Ironically, he works for OculusVR.

But as for what PixelWAD said - Carmack is likely never going to touch a Doom or Quake property again as long as id Software is owned by Bethesda/Zenimax. There was a legal dispute a few years back and suffice to say, the separation was not friendly.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby PixelWAD » Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:27 am

@Graf Zahl - I'm really curious about your opinion on VR.
When have you tried it? Have you tried to use it for a little longer than public demos?
What titles have you tried? Which headset have you used?
Do you see absolutely no use for VR, even outside of gaming?
What impressed you the most, what was the most disappointing thing?

We are on the Doom forum. While I don't like the new Doom VFR, I think Doom 3 VR mod has been one of the best VR titles. You should definitely try it. While the visuals will be far off from what you're used to seeing on the screen, immersion and being scared all the time is unbeatable. I have big space available, so I can walk around my big room freely, and it's just really cool being able to walk around Doom labs.

VR has proven to be sustainable, but wide adoption isn't here yet, as the tech is still pretty young. Actually it's not hardware that is stopping adoption, but lack of great software to choose from. Till now, you had to own high-end PC game and then high-end headset to enjoy VR in a basic form, as Cardboard/Daydream?Gear VR/GO are pretty much 360 photo/video viewers.

I believe Quest is going to change all of that. It will still take years before we can use VR headsets as permanent VR workspace, but everything is growing very very fast after Facebook acquisition. Their infinite money guarantees that they have the funds and time to push this things further. Michael Abrash (ex valve, now oculus employee) said in recent Connect 5 talk that the technology to make great headsets don't exist yet. But it will.

VR might be seen as gimmick right now, but it changes year by year. Since trying developer kit 1 back in 2012, I was never able to get back to PC gaming. Sitting in front of pc and having superhuman powers with computer and mouse, while staring at tiny window, no matter how big your monitor is, has never felt immersive for me anymore.

Flight, driving simulators are the perfect fit for VR as they don't require any real locomotion.

Facebook has a long-term goal of bringing bilion people to VR. Today, they are at 1% of the journey. They do realise it will not happen in few years, it will take much longer than that. But they are fully commited to it, having infinite resources, and best teams working on these kind of things.

Here is the latest Carmack talk from Oculus Connect 5 - https://youtu.be/VW6tgBcN_fA
It's one and a half hour long, but I always find him speeches to be really enjoyable. He can just keep on talking and talking and people seem to can't get enough. I would recommend having a look at the recent talks from Connect 5. Lots of very technical info.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Graf Zahl » Mon Oct 01, 2018 9:55 am

I haven't tried VR and I never will, even 3D movies make me dizzy because my vision is very uneven between both eyes. As a result I stay away from any fake-3D technology.

I also do not think that this is going to catch the general public. It's a niche and will forever remain a niche because the hardware will be the blocking factor. I know a good share of gamers, but the interest in VR is extremely low in general.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby CD-Roman » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:04 am

PixelWAD wrote: Actually it's not hardware that is stopping adoption, but lack of great software to choose from.


Doom is the answer - imagine, you are a big fan of game Q1/UT/DarkForces/etc and u wish to play UT99 because this is your #1 all of games. Unfortunately, no VR port with big help of gzDOOM and modders, u can play not only Doom in VR, but UT99, Rednect Rampage, Chasm the Rift, Brutal Doom, QC, Brutal Wolfenstein,

Blood Doom mod in VR...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bIGx9wAadU&

Like PixelWad,said - VR is not only for gaming but 10 other things like gallery 360, YT360, help a disabled persons, helps for school to see "old ages", 3d art, 3d workflow with photoediting/3d rendering by hands, etc

Sketchfab VR
https://youtu.be/Myn9YNJ7zGQ?t=2m13s

Ok, dont hate technology, let find other coder with some VR programming knowledge

Btw. Doom engine looks much simpled to mod instead of Unity, Radiant, Hammer, UE.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby PixelWAD » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:06 am

I think you are making a big mistake by dismissing VR without even trying it. I was under the impression that you tried it but it left you disappointed. In this case I think it's right to be sceptical, but you should definetly give it benefit of the doubt.

VR isn't ready for it's prime time, but it will be in a decade or so. This is the future. We have already reached everything we can do with mobile phones, which as you might remember, also weren't as good as what we have today.

Stereoscopic 3D itself is not a gimmick as well, it does work well with real rendered content. Most movies are made in 3D in post processing, which will never match the quality of recording with 2 cameras.

There was more VR content developed during the life of first developer kit than in entire VR lifetime before Oculus. People are excited about VR, I demoed it to tons of people and every one was impressed, just the technology isn't at the right time for it to really take off.

Man, I would really like to crowdfund Quest for you. If you don't like it, it's fine. But you should really experience it yourself before stating that it will never take off.

PC gaming did not change at all in the last decade. We are only getting better graphic cards and faster cpus, while visual graphics remains pretty much the same. I think even simple vibration/rumble in Xbox controllers is more immersive for shooting than using static mouse.

Also, what do you think is a fake 3D technology? Modern headsets use two separate screens to deliver you two separate images to your two eyes. There is nothing fake about this, unlike older 3D TVs. Quality is great. It all comes down to content. Facebook is working on 6DOF 3D 360 cameras to allow more freedom in static videos. It does work.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:08 am

CD-Roman wrote:Ok, dont hate technology, let find other coder with some VR programming knowledge

Good luck. So far only one has ever appeared, that has actual interest in Doom.

PixelWAD wrote:I think you are making a big mistake by dismissing VR without even trying it.

Look, we get it. You're a big VR fan. Can you please stop trying to shove the technology onto everyone? You're starting to sound like a broken record - and let me be clear - in general when people behave the way you do, they tend to push people AWAY from their cause, rather than helping it. That's not me saying this administratively, that's a simple inconvenient fact that I've observed in the time I've been on this planet. You should cool it while you're ahead.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby PixelWAD » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:11 am

Of course enthusiast will be louder than general crowd. But if you dismiss VR without trying it then I have no words. That's like saying Tesla self driving cars will never take off.

Abrasch and Carmack did not join Oculus for the money. They can see the future of VR.

Once Quest is out, it will allow even more developers to thinker with it, and actually make money off it, instead of relaying on a niche within niche with 'pc master race' specs.

Quake 1 was done for Daydream with decoupled aiming just a few days ago.

Carmack said that there are still tons of people who like to use VR, but they just want to sit down, and look straight ahead and enjoy it. Just like on PC. Not everyone has to be active in full room-scale 360 freedom. But VR is here, and it's here to stay, and only developer further onward. You might disagree. But this is a public board and I just wanted to have a discussion.

If you don't want to work on Doom in VR that's perfectly fine, but CDRoman points are quite valid. Bring in the engine, unlock 20 years of user content enjoyable in a whole new way. I play a lot of Doom, but it's exclusively on mobile, or PC VR. I have no interest playing such a simple game with a controls from 20 years ago.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby Rachael » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:18 am

PixelWAD wrote:Of course enthusiast will be louder than general crowd. But if you dismiss VR without trying it then I have no words. That's like saying Tesla self driving cars will never take off.

The enthusiast will also be asked to take a break from the forums. You're way too pushy and that's getting annoying. Cool it.

You're blatantly ignoring what differing opinions anyone has to say in order to push your own agenda. I suggest you take some time to reflect on that.
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Re: Official Oculus Rift GZ3Doom thread

Postby dpJudas » Mon Oct 01, 2018 10:25 am

I have tried VR (technically I own a DK2, but that hardware is unsupported now), even did some fixes on GZDoom so I've seen Doom on the DK2. Also tried the HTC VR headset with its controllers.

My verdict is that VR for gaming won't ever be successful for one simple reason: you can't move around without getting sick. Sure, you can teleport, but shooters is totally out of the question with WASD style movement - even Descent, with its slower overall movement and "you are in a cockpit" gameplay made me feel bad after a very short while. So basically most traditional first person genres have to be completely rethought to work with the headset. And that's a deal breaker to me, and I'm willing to wager for most traditional gamers as well. I like speed in my games - something VR just can't offer.

Anyway, I tried VR, it sucked, and I'm not going to buy a new headset. Maybe it will be useful for specific genres of games (not Doom) or for doctors or something. If you are one of the lucky few that doesn't get really ill from moving around without teleport, consider yourself lucky. Don't expect that to be the case for 9 out of 10 since I'm one of those that had no problem playing Doom at its <35 FPS back in the 90's and its unstable FPS.
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