Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

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WEAPON LIMITER SYSTEM: What do you think would work best?

Poll ended at Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:00 am

1) Two weapons per weapon category (As it currently is)
10
28%
2) Remove weapon categories and limit players to X number of any weapons regardless of size or type?
3
8%
3) A pseudo-weight system where weapons take up X amount of space depending on weapon size. Pistols take up little space, but rifles and launchers take up a lot more space, etc.
23
64%
 
Total votes : 36

Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby kdogg35 » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:33 pm

Hello. I love your mod, one of the best I ever played. So sorry about your injury :( hope you get well soon.

I wanted to mention a small issue I've been having, being unsure if it's something on my part or not. When I load your mod with liquid texture pack (or any other liquid mod that causes splashes on liquid surfaces)
the splash is constant when I'm on liquids, like something causes the splash animation to play over and over really fast even when standing still, causing my vision to be blocked by the splash animation. Couldn't figure out a way to fix it. Still, nothing game breaking though.

Thank you again for this wonderful mod.

Cheers.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby CaptainNurbles » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:17 am

kdogg35 wrote:So sorry about your injury :( hope you get well soon.


THANK

kdogg35 wrote:When I load your mod with liquid texture pack (or any other liquid mod that causes splashes on liquid surfaces)
the splash is constant when I'm on liquids, like something causes the splash animation to play over and over really fast even when standing still, causing my vision to be blocked by the splash animation.


I'd noticed this in a recent run of Ashes 2063: Dead Man Walking, actually, not long before I fractured my arm. I didn't do anything to look into it but when I noticed it I decided to hop into third person and start jumping, and somehow the act of being in water was generating tons of an empty weapon actor! My guess is that there's a conflict of actornames between one of my weapons and whatever coding magic goes into water depth and splashing. Can you send me links to the maps you'd noticed this in? I'll give it a look when I can.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby kdogg35 » Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:16 am

Sure
https://www.moddb.com/addons/doom-liquid-texture-pack
this is the mod I use for liquid textures.
I noticed it first in The Ultimate Doom E1M1 on poison pool just outside from the level start.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby Take One » Sun Aug 08, 2021 8:28 am

Just finished a full playthrough of this (on version 1.9, because I started it before the update came out) through Doom 2 the Way id Did, and I just wanted to say that I'm really impressed with how well-balanced this is for classic wads like that. Starting off always feels a bit rough (probably intentionally), but rarely unmanageable, and I never reached a point where I felt like I was overpowered or the challenge was unfair. A lot of mods that add a load of new weapons and ammo types struggle with balancing resources without either making it impossible to use most weapons or having you swim in ammo after a couple of maps, but I felt like you nailed it through my whole playthrough. I've now started another one on v1.9.91 in Icarus, and I'm halfway through that while making sure to use weapons that I didn't use in the last game, and still feel the same about it.

I'm usually not a fan of mods that fudge Doom's gameplay to such a severe extent, but I'm a sucker for ammo types, damage types and resource management, so this really does it for me (as do the System Shock voices). Great job in general, and I'm looking forward to playing more with this.

There's just one somewhat minor problem that I've noticed since the update (or, at least, one that you haven't already addressed): Cloakers seem to always stand still until they see the player, so, if they end up being placed in the kind of monster closet that teleports enemies into the map, they have an unfortunate habit of standing completely still in there and blocking anything else from reaching the teleporter. I've had a few maps where 100% kills was impossible without cheating because of that.

I hope that your arm recovers quickly. I'm sorry to hear about that. <3
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby Someonewhoplaysdoom » Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:33 pm

I decided to check this mod after thinking about it, tackling the first levels of Consolation Price PSX Doom, D2TWID and Requiem. I had lots of fun with it, specially after putting health items despawn chance to 56% to have some balanc during playthroughts (Specially at first levels of a wad), while still having to scavenge for these supplies. Scavver's Paradise makes you think a lot of what weapons try to have and which ones you would change while collecting extra ammo to keep going and its an interesting idea adapted to Doom. Also, I love mods that include tons and tons of in-game lore.

Now, some Bug reports and suggestions:

Spoiler:


Finally, I hope that you're doing well with your recovery, which is a procces that require his own time and patience.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby CaptainNurbles » Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:14 pm

So after nearly two months of recovery I'm good enough to start slowly getting back into the groove of things. I'm gonna be taking my time with this, but I do want to get a proper version 2.0 release out before the end of the year. In the time since recovery began a few ideas did crop up in mind and I'll be toying around with those. Nothing super major, but it'll be a bit more involved than "finish the rest of the sound bytes for the monsters." Thank you all for your kind words, it really means a lot!

Spoiler: Responses!


I've got a few things to tie up in my personal life before I can get back to serious work on the mod, but I do have a few plans for it. General improvements will happen based on y'all's feedback. Also gonna toy around with another weapon or two. Perhaps a rifle using the .22 WMR magazines to give that ammo type a bit more use outside of the early game, as well as a possible replacement for the 20mm cannon (if I wind up liking this replacement, it will likely come with a secondary ammo type to give it more versatility.) Also going to toy around with the addition of more zombies using rifle type weapons (5.45mm auto sniper/5.6mm bolt-rifle/7.62mm DMR/8.6mm sniper) to better get those weapons and their ammo into circulation while also adding a little bit more emphasis on longer range combat.

Also! If anybody knows their way with sprites or knows a fella who can help, I would appreciate some help on getting some sprites done up for the armor repairer tool! As it currently is there's a bit of ambiguity as to what it exactly is when you first switch to it as a first time player, and I feel that having sprites handy would help reduce that ambiguity some.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby -Ghost- » Sat Sep 11, 2021 12:53 am

Welcome back, glad to hear it! I'm looking forward to seeing what else you make!
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby CaptainNurbles » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:15 pm

Just a quick lil' video to show you all some of what's been worked on!



I'm starting off with the weapons I've planned on working since, while time consuming, guns aren't too difficult to make so long as you have the sprites handy. That said, half of the time I'd spent on this carbine was working on separating the sprites from the sprite sheet provided and then making some janky reload animations (standard reload, the grenade reload animations were by ChopBlock223.)

No promises on when this will come out, but it is in the works. Slowly. Pacing myself, partly due to injuries, partly to prevent burnout.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby Zemakat » Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:53 pm

CaptainNurbles wrote:Carbine Video

Glad to see more automatic weapons with grenade launching capabilities. :thumb:

Also, a wish for good luck for the development and healing processes. It doesn't sound easy to me!
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby m1lk » Wed Sep 22, 2021 11:12 pm

ill give it a shot, thanks
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby Captain J » Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:41 am

Recently played this again and got some feedback to share:
Spoiler:
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby CaptainNurbles » Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:39 am

So an idea came to mind last night and I figured I'd drop it here to get some input from the public!

As it currently stands, health pickups are a bit too simple and too useful. You find a medical good, press use, bam it heals you or gives you some sort of buff. In the early game when you're hurting for supplies, health pickups are absolutely crucial and the stress from not having enough medical goods helps to instill the oppressive atmosphere I'm hoping for in this mod.

That said, you can carry thousands of points of HP on your person at all times if meds are in good supply and you can keep from wasting them. I've had many occasions when playing the mod for fun where by the time I'm 10, 15 levels into a megawad I am FLUSH with meds, to the point that combat is still intense in the heat of the moment, but overall trivial from how easy it is to just spam meds.

Two solutions I've got in mind to make the medical side of things more engaging and to remove the ability to hoard thousands of health points of meds: Limit how much can be carried similar to how weapons are handled, and the addition of status debuffs.

With the medical limiters, you would be limited to a set amount of meds that can be picked up at any given moment. A single use of bandages would be 1 block of space, a stimpak would be 2, and a medikit would be equal to the bulk of what's held within. This would encourage the player to be a bit more thoughtful with what medical supplies they carry with them, always making sure you're prepared for any situation that comes your way without allowing them to simply hoard an entire hospital's worth of goods.

To further add some thoughtfulness to your medical goods, I wanna dick around with adding status effects that can be inflicted on the player from taking damage and such. Get shot by a gun or slashed by demonic claws, now you're bleeding. Torched by a horde of imps, guess you're covered in burns now. Been going at it for too long, now you're fatigued. Splashed on by an imp trite, looks like you're infected with demonic parasites. These afflictions would all negatively impact the player's performance in some way, but wouldn't in most cases be too punishing. I wanna add a good number of them, but I want to avoid forcing the player to take a nasty, obnoxious, or fatal affliction that they don't have the means to treat, so I'm going to do my best to avoid having just one cure for afflictions where possible (Example, bandages heal bleeding quite well, but if you're out a stimpak has coagulants that can slow down the bleeding.) This would add more strategy to what you carry with you. You can be flush with supplies that directly restore your health, but you better make sure you pack a bottle of pain killers to make your burns tolerable or an adrenal boost to cure your fatigue.

I ~might~ extend this to also apply to item pickups, that way you're not carrying five machinegun turrets at all times. That's a maybe, since those pickups are pretty hard to come by as is, and hoarding tons of them is possible, but significantly less so than the meds in my experience. I will not apply it to ammo however, as I feel that doing so would overcomplicate the mod and also drive me friggen' insane lol.

I'm going to be spending time dicking around with this, seeing how to effectively make it work in code, and then tweak it to make it enjoyably punishing without being unfair, but I'm posting these ideas publicly so I can get some input and ideas from you lot! This has done me well so far in shaping Scavver's Paradise into something that's more fun and engaging than I would have managed without player input, so let's see what you have to say!

Spoiler: Responses
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby Someonewhoplaysdoom » Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:48 pm

CaptainNurbles wrote:
To further add some thoughtfulness to your medical goods, I wanna dick around with adding status effects that can be inflicted on the player from taking damage and such. Get shot by a gun or slashed by demonic claws, now you're bleeding. Torched by a horde of imps, guess you're covered in burns now. Been going at it for too long, now you're fatigued. Splashed on by an imp trite, looks like you're infected with demonic parasites. These afflictions would all negatively impact the player's performance in some way, but wouldn't in most cases be too punishing. I wanna add a good number of them, but I want to avoid forcing the player to take a nasty, obnoxious, or fatal affliction that they don't have the means to treat, so I'm going to do my best to avoid having just one cure for afflictions where possible (Example, bandages heal bleeding quite well, but if you're out a stimpak has coagulants that can slow down the bleeding.) This would add more strategy to what you carry with you. You can be flush with supplies that directly restore your health, but you better make sure you pack a bottle of pain killers to make your burns tolerable or an adrenal boost to cure your fatigue.


I like the interaction of status effects, It would be a nice touch of more survival horror on aspects not directly related to combat that could have lots of potencial, specially for using pain killers or blood packs that sometimes get a lot of time on inventory at full stack being rarely used.

CaptainNurbles wrote:
I ~might~ extend this to also apply to item pickups, that way you're not carrying five machinegun turrets at all times. That's a maybe, since those pickups are pretty hard to come by as is, and hoarding tons of them is possible, but significantly less so than the meds in my experience. I will not apply it to ammo however, as I feel that doing so would overcomplicate the mod and also drive me friggen' insane lol.



This idea sounds nice too, but the weight limit on pickups would mean probably a rework on inventory system, right? to be able to drop stuff that you don't need to carry or for taking something more valuable. In general these development ideas sounds great.
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby CaptainNurbles » Mon Sep 27, 2021 6:31 pm

Someonewhoplaysdoom wrote:This idea sounds nice too, but the weight limit on pickups would mean probably a rework on inventory system, right?


Probably not! I just spent the better portion of my day working on the new Item Weight System, but I gotta do some playtesting. We shall see how things work!

It functions pretty much exactly like the weapon weight system. I was tempted to have items affect that weight, too, forcing you to balance between armaments, medical goods, and support items, but that would A) require I rework the weapon weight system entirely to account for decimal weight values (not impossible, but probably more work than its worth), and B) probably make things ~too~ difficult. I don't wanna go into full blown realism with this. Enough realism to kick your ass with, but still arcadey enough to be enjoyable all around.



So now, there's two Inventory Values to keep track of: How much weapon weight you're carrying, and how bulky your inventory items are. I've just now implemented it, so I haven't spent any time whatsoever balancing it out. Weight values are likely to change a good deal, but I feel like I've balanced things out decently enough for a good playtesting start!

There's a limit of 100 Bulk Units, which sounds like a lot at first.

Standard Medikits take up 12 units of bulk. Military medikits are 16 units of bulk. The UAC medikit is 18 units, as is the berserk pack. Each kit takes up as much space as what they contain combined.

Each use of a bandage roll is 1 unit of bulk (4 units per roll.)

Your HEV suit you just picked up, that weighs 36 units.

Wanna bring a sentry turret? Better pack light, cause that's 60 units of bulk in total.

These bulk values are probably going to change. Before I tackle the affliction system, I wanna playtest the crap out of this to make sure it's fun and fair.

There's also a new batch of medical goods! I did what I could to avoid adding items whose only purpose is to cure a status effect, so they all have an additional effect to go with it.



They all do at least a little something to help out on top of treating the status effects.

Next up on the todo list, actually make the afflictions. Gonna be hard since it'd involve ACS, which I know little about, but now's a good time to learn!
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Re: Scavver's Paradise V1.9.91 - A Survival Horror Mod

Postby Abba Zabba » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:56 am

Sounds promising, I was wondering if you were going to expand on the inventory system. Little suggestion, though, would be to make medkits and other 'bundle' type items be more ideal for bulk supplies, considering they're compact in a wrapper, for portability. Weight obviously wouldn't change, but it would make more sense to wedge one or two medkits in your backpack and have room to spare, versus unwrapping the medkits and dumping all the contents into your bag. That way, you could have a small supply of unwrapped, specific medical items when needed, and when this general medical supply runs low (which it will), you can restock everything with a fresh medkit. It's more or less what I was doing before, with the static limits, but it's even more appropriate now.

Turret nerf in regards to the reality of their bulk is good imo. I hoard and hoard until I can find a good moment to use one considering you unfortunately can't move them. This change would give them heaps more use. Could the armor repair tool be used on them, in the future? Perhaps a more common caliber for the rifle turret so you could restock it for siege-esque fights, or a central area of a map that has a lot of activity? Piggybacking off of that, you could make a fully intact/repaired turret with full ammo collapse back down into a portable item.
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