Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby cubebert » Sun Jun 27, 2021 6:43 pm

I wanted to share some thoughts I've had with the new update for Nightmare Logic. I've played Syringe with the DoomRL Monster Pack using the extra weapons; it's a pretty fun mapset and with the added challenge of having tougher enemies, it made ammo management more important. :)

1. I noticed that everytime you take damage, you get a very quick speed boost, presumably to get out of danger. While it can be useful for taking cover against enemy projectiles and hitscan, it can feel a bit disorienting when you keep getting boosts from walking on hazardous terrain. It can also be a bit of a detriment when walking on thin terrain and there are hitscanners on the sides, making precise movement more difficult to pull off.

2. Speaking of movement, I like the more rigid friction that the player has when moving, but the movement speed when running is slower then normal. This makes some maps that require running in order to platform trickier, since I won't be able to move that the same speed that Doomguy regularly runs at. While the health hypo can increase the running speed and fix the problem, I think that there should be an option to increase the movement speed so that the player will be able to make jumps.

3. Is there a way to disable the camera shaking when holding weapons? It's something minor, but whenever I'm still, it's a bit jarring to have the camera move around whenever I'm trying to look at something from far away.

I'm loving the new content that being added to NL, Cosmobyte! I'm not fully sure, but if I ever do decide to add a weapon or item, could I have your permission to do so? I might have some ideas that could be fun... :P
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Dr_Cosmobyte » Sun Jun 27, 2021 10:14 pm

Hi, i'm glad you're liking the mod!!! :D

Feel free to contribute with anything you might find cool, i'm having plans for new addons and weapon surprises for v2.0, but that's for another day... =v

In the mean time:

1 and 2 - The speed boost when damaged isn't intentional, in fact it is a consequence of the very same script that enables the more realistic movement for the player. I might try my hand at making a CVAR for disabling it.

3 - Thought it would be somewhat hard, but in fact it isn't. So much that i already added it to the mod, so in v2.0 you'll be able to disable the camera shaking ;)

Other changes will include some buffing on weapons and a better organization overall. Stay tuned =)
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Dr_Cosmobyte » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:01 pm

Hey you guys. I'm not too much into making dev diaries, but i think i should bring some news from this mod.

So far, the changelog is gigantic, definitely v2.0 will be a quality of life update in many aspects. Guns will feel better, play better, some ammo rebalancing here and there, and some surprises along the way. I still haven't fulfilled 100% of my objectives, but i can say we're pretty much hitting or past the 90%. One thing i can already give away, is that i learned the basics of A_Overlay, thanks to comet in the ZDoom Discord.

with that command, i can do something as this:

Image

Can you guess what is going on? Hope you are enjoying the mod so far, i definitely have it amongst one of the best to work with, being so simple and tight on its purpose. Can't wait to bring the finished v2 version so i can turn my attention to other projects. See you soon.
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby JohnnyTheWolf » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:25 pm

A reworked assault rifle with a motion tracker attachment?
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Dr_Cosmobyte » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:34 pm



It's the Plasma Cannon, and now the screen and LEDs shine in the dark, kinda like a brightmap, but a bit easier to handle ;)
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Tesculpture » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:04 pm

*Looks at Plasma Cannon*

Funny, why does the optical sight have a sine wave on a gri-

...Oh.

Oh I get it.

It's an oscilloSCOPE.

*Clutches chest in pain*
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Dr_Cosmobyte » Wed Jul 21, 2021 8:30 pm

If you look at the credits that now come with the file, you'll see it is credited to an old SNES game, Top Gear 3000.

I thought these sprites were so colorful and vivid, i couldn't let them alone. Here's a video demonstrating a showcase of all car parts with some animations. Skip to 4:08 to see where the plasma rifle got its screen from:

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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Captain J » Mon Jul 26, 2021 8:33 am

I've played the mod with few levels of Doom 2 and here are some fresh hot feedback if you need!

- Handgun and Battle Rifle ammo are EVERYWHERE. It's an unique sight to see that the roles are switched to the point that Shotgun ammo is now rarer. My gripe would be Handgun's rate of fire is slow and accuracy is the kinda same as Battle Rifle's. I expected it to be a bit more accurate than the rifle!

- Plasma Cannon's projectile is rather huge, it gets stuck if you're too close to the right wall.

- Health Hypo needs some kind of buff imao. Besides of speed boost, it just gives you a wee bit of health and never enhances your crowbar damage.

Also i just realized that enemies can shoot down your thrown Grenades... Hitscannies are going to have fun with this. :P
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Dr_Cosmobyte » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:22 pm

Funny you saying that Captain, i just added a damage boost (for the crowbar only) yesterday night. About the other gripes:

- Handgun and Battle Rifle ammo are EVERYWHERE. It's an unique sight to see that the roles are switched to the point that Shotgun ammo is now rarer. My gripe would be Handgun's rate of fire is slow and accuracy is the kinda same as Battle Rifle's. I expected it to be a bit more accurate than the rifle!


Yeah, last week some friends related me the pistol still needed a punch, so i increased both the accuracy and the damage as well. As for the fire rate, don't forget there is an "autofire" CVAR option in the Setup> Mod Options menu. The pistol fires at 6 tics, almost the same as Doom's chaingun!

- Plasma Cannon's projectile is rather huge, it gets stuck if you're too close to the right wall.

Noticed that, gonna take a crack at reducing its radius and height.

Also i just realized that enemies can shoot down your thrown Grenades... Hitscannies are going to have fun with this. :P

It's not a bug, it's a feature :lol:

Thanks for your help Cap, expect a bigger, badder and better version of Nightmare Logic soon enough. ;)
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Nimlouth » Wed Jul 28, 2021 2:30 pm

Finished playing the d2rebuildt maps with this a couple of times and also tried it with other wads and tUD. It's gud, very very gud. It feels like the evil twin of what Hellrider is trying to do haha. I really liked the more methodical/tactical yet action oriented gunplay.

I do have a couple of dumb suggestions/observations tho:

a) I managed to frustratingly kill myself a lot of times by pressing right click out of instinct to rise the crosshairs, ending my marine's life through the sad act of lobbing a hot grenade in front of me. Yes IKR, I might be stupid haha, but I think that just using a separate keybind is a tried and tested method of implementing grenades, and the end user can always re-bind to Rmouse if they so choose to anyways. In fact, I ended up doing just the opposite (binding the grenade key to F and unbinding secondary fire from Rclick) which was kinda awkward xD.

b) The laser point crosshair of the battle rifle could use a toggle off/on option.

c) All weapons in general *feel good* to use BUT:
- The shotgun could use some... something... ye I'm not super helpful but maybe the reload is a little tad too slow or maybe the lack of a *schkc chck* pump animation feedback after each shot makes it feel kinda stiff, idk.
- The Magnum was my least favourite weapon to use. In contrast with the handgun and even the shotgun, the magnum feels almost painfully stiff to shoot around. Maybe improving its rate of fire at the cost of having an horrendous recoil? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
- All other weapons are great fun, specially the tactical crossbow and OMG THE PLASMA GUN IS GREAT. Still, they could all use some form of "secondary attack" or just the option to rise iron sights or zoom in, which would work wonders while leaning/peeking in corners or smthng. Maybe that's because I just instantly associate TACTICAL with IRON SIGHTS CORNER CHECKING haha.

d) The slow movement adds A LOT to the experience. But sometimes I found myself backtracking around an empty map (because of doom map design shenanigans and my own ADHD) and wishing there was some kind of limited sprint or something to move faster once in a while. I know it could potentially go against the gameplay idea of the mod (players mindlessly sprinting around like it's CoD or some crap lol) but that's that ha. IDK how hard it would be to implement (so take it with a big freaking rock of salt), but sprinting without being able to shoot is an idea that could work.

Keep going with this, It's awesome!
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Re: Nightmare Logic V1.9 [26.06.21] New Guns!

Postby Dr_Cosmobyte » Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:13 pm

Nimlouth wrote:Finished playing the d2rebuildt maps with this a couple of times and also tried it with other wads and tUD. It's gud, very very gud. It feels like the evil twin of what Hellrider is trying to do haha. I really liked the more methodical/tactical yet action oriented gunplay.


You got it right! It was never about being badass, but you should have the resources to be one, if i can overcome the clunky gameplay. ;)

Nimlouth wrote:a) I managed to frustratingly kill myself a lot of times by pressing right click out of instinct to rise the crosshairs, ending my marine's life through the sad act of lobbing a hot grenade in front of me. Yes IKR, I might be stupid haha, but I think that just using a separate keybind is a tried and tested method of implementing grenades, and the end user can always re-bind to Rmouse if they so choose to anyways. In fact, I ended up doing just the opposite (binding the grenade key to F and unbinding secondary fire from Rclick) which was kinda awkward xD.


Okay, so, i gotta spoiler this: Next build won't have the grenades in altfire; it seems it creates more problems rather than solve them,
so i think it'll be a bit more helpful in the end.

Nimlouth wrote:b) The laser point crosshair of the battle rifle could use a toggle off/on option.


Had you asked me this some time earlier, i would probably be negative about it. But since overlays are playing some helpful parts within the code now, i've moved the laser sight to the overlays, and i'm still pondering: "Should the player be able to disable the laser sight within a quick click, which won't be intuitive and will bloat the code a bit? Or should i make a simple CVAR that will be avaiable at the options?" Kinda hard to make these decisions, really.

Nimlouth wrote:c) All weapons in general *feel good* to use BUT:
- The shotgun could use some... something... ye I'm not super helpful but maybe the reload is a little tad too slow or maybe the lack of a *schkc chck* pump animation feedback after each shot makes it feel kinda stiff, idk.


Next update might get you happy with the shotgun. =)

Nimlouth wrote: - The Magnum was my least favourite weapon to use. In contrast with the handgun and even the shotgun, the magnum feels almost painfully stiff to shoot around. Maybe improving its rate of fire at the cost of having an horrendous recoil? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


I... i gotta be honest, that's why both the guns in the extra pack are not official. I am not satisfied with at least 50% of the way it looks or behaves. But, i started to throw some concepts around and people wanted it to get in, i thought at least someone would find fun in them. =p

Nimlouth wrote: - All other weapons are great fun, specially the tactical crossbow and OMG THE PLASMA GUN IS GREAT. Still, they could all use some form of "secondary attack" or just the option to rise iron sights or zoom in, which would work wonders while leaning/peeking in corners or smthng. Maybe that's because I just instantly associate TACTICAL with IRON SIGHTS CORNER CHECKING haha.


Iron sights are too overkill IMO, but the thoughts of altfires cross my head every now and then. As much as i know what some guns could have, some others would be lacking to their potential. Don't give up on that idea.

Nimlouth wrote:d) The slow movement adds A LOT to the experience. But sometimes I found myself backtracking around an empty map (because of doom map design shenanigans and my own ADHD) and wishing there was some kind of limited sprint or something to move faster once in a while. I know it could potentially go against the gameplay idea of the mod (players mindlessly sprinting around like it's CoD or some crap lol) but that's that ha. IDK how hard it would be to implement (so take it with a big freaking rock of salt), but sprinting without being able to shoot is an idea that could work.


ADHD gang step right up! I know how it feels.

I'm not taking that with salt, actually i've wanted to implement some ZScript sprinting since the beginning, and i have only FOUR conditions to follow:

1 - Don't bloat the code;
2 - Don't make thousands of checks;
3 - Be easy to understand, should i ever modify/edit it;
4 - Don't ruin my other scripts that include bobbing at all states, thanks to Agent_Ash;

So yeah, if i can fill those lines, i'll probably implement it =s

Nimlouth wrote:Keep going with this, It's awesome!


Thank you! I'm still very involved with this, and i learned lots of fun stuff while doing it. Be sure v2.0 will be a lot better!
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